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Question: OK! Looks like I've sold the big boat and I am ready to go small. The short list is a CP 16, Compac Suncat, Montgomery 15 or 17 and maybe the new Compac 18 coming out sometime this year (so I am told). So, any comments, experiences shared or any info about the boats mentioned would be appreciated. The short, short list is CP 16 vs Montgomery 15.
Opinion 1
The Com-Pac 16' is no longer in production, but used boats in good condition are plentiful. The model with bowsprit and centerboard (the Com-Pac 16CB) will perform the best. But I understand that even the 16CB is no sparkling performer. Don't let the 15' and 16' in the comparison of the Com-Pac and Montgomery fool you: The Montgomery 15' is much roomer, much more boat, than the Com-Pac 16'. The Montgomery 15' has sailed from California to Hawaii. The Com-Pac 16' is a cute little boat for puttering around on your local inland lake. The Montgomery 15' will easily outrun a Com-Pac 16' and will be seakindlier in all conditions. I ruled out the Com-Pac 16' when I saw its low-slung cockpit benches: I knew sailing one would always feel like sqatting in a dinghy. I understand the Com-Pacs are well built and are aesthetically very charming.
I've never heard of the Com-Pac 18': Are you sure you aren't referring to the new 20' Horizon Cat, big sister to the Sun Cat? There is a Com-Pac 19', also no longer in production. The Com-Pac 19' is much more boat than the Com-Pac 16': The difference between dinghy and yacht. I believe used 19's in good condition are plentiful, too, but they're heavily ballasted boats that are challenging to tow and launch.
The M17 would be a great choice. I assume you've ruled out the Potters, the Precisions and the Stuart 19', if the M's and Com-Pacs are on your short list. I think the Potters, Precisions and Stuart are fine boats, too. Good luck with your choice. I'm sure you could squeeze plenty of fun out of the Com-Pac 16CB, for less money than you'd spend on a used Montgomery 15'. But since you're a former big-boat sailor, you probably have the sailing experience to appreciate the M15's superior performance and would also value the roominess of the M15. And the M15 has a wonderful big v-berth, which sits nice and high so you don't have to crouch getting in and out, with no compression post to force contortions on entry and exit.
Opinion 2
I have owned several ComPac's over the years...2 16's, a 23 and a 19
before buying my present boat, a SunCat. I also owned a Montgomery 15
and a Hunter 22 along the way. The Larry Brown article comparing the
Montgomery 15 with the ComPac was on target. The Monty is a much better
sailor. In fact, mine was the best sailing boat I've owned, regardless
of size or cost. Not the fastest, but the most responsive. Think BMW
on the water. And second only to my ComPac SunCat in ease of rigging,
launching, etc.. ComPac's are heavier and somewhat more stable and
conservative. Think Buick.
I'm not sure I would want to sail to Hawaii in a 15 or 16 foot boat, period. I had that pleasure a number of times on lean, gray ships while spending 7 1/2 years on active duty in the Navy. A well designed boat, skillfully sailed could and several have accomplished the task. For the majority of us, coastal sailing, bays and inland lakes are our reality and the prospective buyer has to determine what he/she really wants. Cruising, daysailing, racing or just messing about. Any of these purposes is valid and can be accommodated by a variety of small boats.
Opinion 3
Been there: done that! I bought a ComPac 16 and lived with it for a few years, getting ever more annoyed at it's failings, such as:
It didn't like going to windward, and when you had to go to windward, the leeway made by the boat was so much that you almost had to allow 30 degrees to make your heading...
It has no sail lockers. Everything you need to operate a boat has to be stuffed on the berths under the cockpit seats. Murphy decrees that what you want "right now" is always the furthest away in the "storage area".
Inside storage, as mentioned above is purely, "stuff it on the berths". No lockers, or other storage facilities. At night, if you want to use the berths, you have to haul everything off the berths and pile it in the cockpit. Then in the morning, you take everything from the cockpit and stuff it on the berths again. What a way to run a boat!
After reading about the M15, and then getting information from members on the M-website, I bought one.
My conclusion:
Buy an M15. It is a "proper" vessel. It has sail lockers in the cockpit; it has storage lockers in the cabin; it has a large useable double berth forward, without a mast compression
post in the middle of the cabin. It sails excellently; whether ghosting along or hard on the wind. In short, it is what a real sail boat is all about.
So that you know where I'm coming from in my comments, I owned a Tripp-Lentsch 29 for 26 years; owned it's big brother, a Northeast 38, for two years (too big and didn't offer any more than what I already had in the T-L 29) When I sold the Tripp-Lentsch I bought a Bolger MICRO - 15' and trailerable. Great boat, but stepping a 22' solid spruce mast became more than I could handle, so I found the ComPac 16, with a deck stepped aluminum mast, as a replacement for the MICRO.
After living with the ComPac and it's lack of basic boat requirements (no sail lockers; no inside storage; two berths - coffin-like - that preclude any "fun and games" (much worse than an Amish bundling board); and poor sailing characteristics (unless you were always on a broad reach), I went looking for something better.
That was the Montgomery 15. Now I'm a happy sailor again, with all the characteristics I was used to on my Tripp-Lentsch, but in a 15 foot size. Go M15 and you'll be happy.
Opinion 4
While I own a M-17, I've sailed on several C-16's. They're fine when there's stout winds about.
Also, the C-16 only had a shoal draft keel, which will drift off course more then the M-15 (with board down) and won't sail as close to the wind as the M-15...with board down. That centerboard on the M-15 is a great feature.
FWIW, I hear that some C-16's now have centerboards like the M-15...if the c-16 that you're looking at has this, then check out the sail area...methinks the M-15 has the C-16 beat. That and the lighter weight (750 vs 1100??) will let the M-15 perform better.
Opinion 5
Later-model Com-Pac 16CBs had a centerboard and bowsprit. The new foresail position supposedly
reduced weather-helm. But I've never read that the CB was a dazzling improvement over the old 16'. One nice thing about the fixed-keel is not moving parts to fail.
Opinion 6
When I owned my 1973 Com-Pac 16, I visited the factory and talked with a
very interesting gentleman, the Mr. Hutchins who founded the company. As I
recall, he made his fortune selling klaxons (ah-oo-ga!) for cars.
He showed me Clark Mills's drawings for the CP 16, which included a centerboard. The board was omitted from almost all 16's built, in order to keep the boat simple and hold the price down. (I paid $3000 for a brand new boat, trailer, and 3hp Volvo outboard.)
Like others who have commented on the upwind ability of an otherwise decently performing boat, I lamented the lack of a board every time I sailed to windward. I was never able to tack through a certain railroad bridge if the wind were on the nose, even on days when my friends in a Cape Dory Typhoon and a San Juan 21 could make it through with one or two tacks. However, on any reach, especially in light air, we could sail along with those boats all day. I once made a photo from the center of the boat, looking directly aft, while sailing to windward in a good breeze. The wake is angled way off to windward, indicating the boat was sliding to leeward at that same angle. Hutchins bragged about the NACA airfoil of the keel, but, with such a low aspect ratio, most of the water flow was under the keel, not along the foil. The board would have made a big difference. When they finally put in a centerboard, it was a flat metal plate, not exactly a paradigm of efficiency.
A 200 percent genoa, with sheets routed through the stern cleat legs, was about right on most days. The boat might have been a little undercanvassed as originally equipped!
Early Com-Pacs, at least, had a definite strong point: They were built with integrity, of the finest materials. Nothing ever broke, cracked, crazed, bent, or otherwise failed in several years of vigorous sailing my 16. A new CP 16 CB was on my short list when I bought Dulcibella, but the boat was out of production by then and would have been a high-priced custom build. I understand they no longer make them at all now.