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Montgomery Sailboats List Archives Search Results

Montgomery Sailboats List Archives Search Results

52 messages found for  "roller" in the body,  "furler" in body,  follow:

Click on a link to jump to the corresponding message
M_Boats: Roller furling
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling
M_Boats: First Sail of the year
M_Boats: First Sail, and etc.
M_Boats: Sails
Re: M_Boats: Sails
Re: M_Boats: Sails
RE: M_Boats: Sails
M_Boats: cdi roller furler
RE: M_Boats: cdi roller furler
M_Boats: Inner stay on an M17
M_Boats: I finally got an M!

M_Boats: 4 stroke motor opinions
Re: M_Boats: Drifter/Reacher
M_Boats: Your opinion is requested

M_Boats: Some more stuff on MSOG web site
RE: M_Boats: howdy from Texas
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
RE: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
M_Boats: RE: Asymmetrical spinnaker
M_Boats: New MSOG Database Needs You
(Continued next column)		 RE: M_Boats: New MSOG Database Needs You
Re: M_Boats: The List
M_Boats: M-17 Roller Furling Jib/Forestay
Re: M_Boats: M-17 Roller Furling Jib/Forestay
M_Boats: Mast rake and racing ratings
Re: M_Boats: M-15 sold
M_Boats: Will compile.
Re: M_Boats: Will compile.
M_Boats: Cruising spinnaker
M_Boats: Cruising spinnaker
M_Boats: Twin Forestays
M_Boats: M17 for sale in Minnesota
M_Boats: Upgrading my M17
M_Boats: bowers sails
M_Boats: M-23's for sale
Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23's for sale?
Two Questions . . .
Two Questions . . .
M_Boats: Two Questions . . .
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M_Boats: Furling Headsails for M15 and M17
Furling Headsails for M15 and M17
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling

Message 1 of 52

From: Robert Rubey
Subject: M_Boats: Roller furling
Date: 10 Apr 1998 07:42:37 -0400
-----------------------------------

Does anyone know if the CDI MINIST roller furler would work on an M17?
TIA, Roberft
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Message 2 of 52

From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furling
Date: 10 Apr 1998 08:09:31 -0700
-----------------------------------

Robert:
Your forestay on the 17 is too long. I tried the same approach you must go
to the ff2.
Bob Fisher
Robert Rubey wrote:
> Does anyone know if the CDI MINIST roller furler would work on an M17?
> TIA, Roberft
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Message 3 of 52

From: Don Haas
Subject: M_Boats: First Sail of the year
Date: 15 Jun 1998 20:04:20 -0700
-----------------------------------

Finally got the boat put back together and the weather cooperated for a
change allowing us to get the boat in the water from the bottom up
rather then the top down. We can get a little rain here in Oregon. We
took our M15 to Fernridge Res. near Eugene. I had made several changes
to the rigging and had a new 2HP Honda to try out.
The most significant change was adding CDI roller furling. Yes it seems
like over doing it on a 15, but after using it a couple of times, my
only comment is why doesn't everyone have one. I had my 150 genny
modified to work with the furler and to my novice eyes the sail shape
was fairly good at throughout. The winds were light both days so we
didn't get to see how it worked in heavier conditions.
The second change was running the halyards back to the cockpit. That
also improved our sailing experience quite a bit. Instead of two
turning blocks as mentioned in another thread, I had a U shaped,
stainless steel plate made. This piece is bolted under the mast step
plate and has holes to attach a shackle block, then run the lead to a
cam cleat. Either way will work great.
I replaced my 2HP Evinrude with the Honda. I expected the Honda to be
quieter and smoother than the E. and it was. The main difference
between the two motors is at idle the Evenrude would sputter along
producing little thrust. The Honda at slow throttle puts out at lot of
thrust, so when you start the motor you better be ready for the boat to
start moving, which I wasn't, but we missed hitting anything anyway.
As we pulled up to the dock Sunday, the owners of an M23, hull #1, were
just getting ready to launch. Our hulls are the same color, light tan
and floating next to each other was quite a picture. But, guess who
didn't bring a camera this trip. The owners of the 23 said they spent
6-months working the boat. It shows, she looks to be in absolutly primo
condition. Note, they also have a M-17 for sale. 541-484-2768.
The other noteable thing that happened was meeting a fellow by the name
of Bill Ghormley. He saw us pulling into the dock and came down to say
hi, recognizing the Montgomery lines from a quarter mile away. He said
he used to work with Jerry Montgomery some years back.
So, all in all it was a nearly perfect first sail outing of the year. A
little more wind would have helped, but just floating is ok for short
periods I suppose.
Don Haas, Dream Catcher
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Message 4 of 52

From: Don Haas
Subject: M_Boats: First Sail, and etc.
Date: 16 Jun 1998 21:01:21 -0700
-----------------------------------

Finally, got the boat put back together and the weather cooperated for a
change allowing us to get the boat in the water from the bottom up
rather then the top down. We can get a little rain here in Oregon. We
took our M15 to Fernridge Reservoir. near Eugene. I had made several
changes to the rigging and had a new 2HP Honda to try out.
The most significant change was adding CDI roller furling. Yes it seems
like over doing it on a 15, but after using it a couple of times, my
only comment is why doesn't everyone have one. I had my 150 genny
modified to work with the furler and to my novice eyes the sail shape
was fairly good at throughout. The winds were light both days so we
didn't get to see how it worked in heavier conditions.
The second change was running the halyards back to the cockpit. That
also improved our sailing experience quite a bit. Instead of two
turning blocks as mentioned in another thread, I had a U shaped,
stainless steel fitting made and bolted it under the mast step.
The fitting has holes to attach a shackle block. Then halyards run
through the block to a cam cleat near the cockpit. Either this method
or using turning blocks will get the job done.
I replaced my 1984 2HP Evinrude with a Honda. I expected the Honda to
be quieter and smoother than the E. and it was. The main difference
between the two motors is at idle the Evenrude would sputter along
producing little thrust. The Honda at slow throttle puts out at lot of
thrust, so when you start the motor you better be ready for the boat to
start moving, which I wasn't, but we missed hitting anything anyway.
As we pulled up to the dock Sunday, the owners of an M23, hull #1, were
just getting ready to launch. Our hulls are the same color, light tan
and floating next to each other was quite a picture. But, guess who
didn't bring a camera this trip. The owners of the 23 said they spent
6-months working the boat. It shows, she looks to be in absolutly primo
condition. Note, they also have a M-17 for sale. 541-484-2768.
The other noteable thing that happened was meeting a fellow by the name
of Bill Ghormley. He saw us pulling into the dock and came down to say
hi, recognizing the Montgomery lines from a quarter mile away. He said
he used to work with Jerry Montgomery some years back. So, Jerry if you
see this post, Bill and Jacquie say Hi.
So, all in all it was a nearly perfect first sail outing of the year. A
little more wind would have helped, but just floating is ok for short
periods I suppose.
Don Haas, Dream Catcher
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Message 5 of 52

From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Sails
Date: 01 Jan 1999 08:34:56 -0500
-----------------------------------

I still haven't ordered sails. There are more options than I expected.
Kern suggests roller furling, at $450, will save me the cost of a storm
jib. Of course, it provides convenience and safety as well. Hogin
suggests an asynch spinnaker (drifter, genniker) for light weather, but on
Lake Erie I feel I'm more likely to need a storm jib than a genniker.
The Harken 00 furler that Kern recommends is $761 in the West catalog, so I
will have to get back to him on where his $450 comes from. I know the CDI
unit is costs about that much. And what about setup? Is a furler
practical for a trailer-sailer? How much does it complicate the rigging
process?
Anyone thinking about going to Sail Expo in Atlantic City on Feb 4 - 7?
Bill Riker
M15 #184
Storm Petrel
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Message 6 of 52

From: Grover & Doris
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Date: 01 Jan 1999 10:47:14 -0500
-----------------------------------

901011042EST
Bill:
All Furlers are not capable of maintaing a reduction in sail in gale
conditions; be sure whatever you get meets your needs
BTW: CDI claims to be meet the standard; IM assured me that they used CDI
(reduced to a storm sail) successfully on WWP-19s.
We have a CDI/Lapper foresail rig; haven`t had the heavy Wx conditions to
test
the rig but feel fairly certain it will function ok.
GL
At 08:34 99/01/01 -0500, you wrote:
>I still haven't ordered sails.=A0 There are more options than I expected.=
=20
>Kern suggests roller furling, at $450, will save me the cost of a storm
>jib.=A0 Of course, it provides convenience and safety as well.=A0=A0 Hogin
>suggests an asynch spinnaker (drifter, genniker) for light weather, but on
>Lake Erie I feel I'm more likely to need a storm jib than a genniker.=A0=20
>
>The Harken 00 furler that Kern recommends is $761 in the West catalog, so I
>will have to get back to him on where his $450 comes from.=A0 I know the=
CDI
>unit is costs about that much.=A0=A0 And what about setup?=A0 Is a furler
>practical for a trailer-sailer?=A0 How much does it complicate the rigging
>process?
>
>Anyone thinking about going to Sail Expo in Atlantic City on Feb 4 - 7?=A0=
=20
>
>Bill Riker
>M15 #184
>Storm Petrel
>=20
Grover ** Doris Tolliver KQ4AL ** KE44CYE
SM/DA ** CAPT/NAV SV HA`PENNY WWP-19 #965
out of Cole`s Pt. Plantation Marina - Cole`s Pt., Va=20
=20
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Message 7 of 52

From: Don Haas
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Date: 01 Jan 1999 17:52:16 -0800
-----------------------------------

I put a CDI furler on my M-15 this year and recommend it highly. I had my
genoa modified to work with the furler so going from full genny to a small jib
takes seconds, and no one has to go forward. Maybe its just me, but the M15
seems to behave better with less foresail when the winds kick up at all.
It requires some modification to the forestay and my rigger suggested replacing
all the standing rigging since it appeared to be original equipment. The
total for all was about $65. CDI recommends having a swivel at each end of the
forestay, so I made the following modifications.
Add a "dog leg" to the existing thru bolt where the side shrouds attach. (I
don't know if that's the official name for the thing or not, I look for my West
catalog and find out)
The upper swivel attaches to the dogleg with a shackle pin and split ring. The
furler drum attaches to the bow fitting like the old forestay. With this
arrangement I can rig either the furler or the original set up. I take the
hanked jib and original forestay with me, although I haven't ever used it.
The only problem I had during installation was with the top fitting on the
furler hitting the mast as it rotated. The angle on the M15 forestay is quite
small so I may have lost a inch of hoist overall so it wouldn't touch.
Rigging for launch takes an additional 10 minutes or so, and a little more time
at the end of the day. I trailer with the furler completely off the mast. The
assembly is almost exactly as long as the outside curve of the boat, so it lays
neatly along curve of the toe rail, securely attached to the bow pulpit,
shrouds and rear cleat. It . My wife made a padded cover that protects the
drum from gunk while we are on the road.
Hope this helps.
Don Haas
M15-248, Dream Catcher
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
William B Riker wrote:
> I still haven't ordered sails. There are more options than I expected.
> Kern suggests roller furling, at $450, will save me the cost of a storm
> jib. Of course, it provides convenience and safety as well. Hogin
> suggests an asynch spinnaker (drifter, genniker) for light weather, but on
> Lake Erie I feel I'm more likely to need a storm jib than a genniker.
>
> The Harken 00 furler that Kern recommends is $761 in the West catalog, so I
> will have to get back to him on where his $450 comes from. I know the CDI
> unit is costs about that much. And what about setup? Is a furler
> practical for a trailer-sailer? How much does it complicate the rigging
> process?
>
> Anyone thinking about going to Sail Expo in Atlantic City on Feb 4 - 7?
>
> Bill Riker
> M15 #184
> Storm Petrel
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Message 8 of 52

From: Brian Weir
Subject: RE: M_Boats: Sails
Date: 04 Jan 1999 07:30:00 -0600
-----------------------------------

Gentlemen, I own a M-17 and added a CDI furler last year at a cost of a few
pennies over $500. It fit over the existing forestay with no modifications
and the cost included modifing the existing genoa (with Sunbrella cover). It
was a breeze to install though the instructions were minimal. I cannot
immagine paying $700 for a furler for a M-15 with a hanky for a jib. Just
kidding M-15er's!! Oh yeah, I purchased my CDI from JSI (formally Johnson
Sails Inc.) out of Florida. They are on the internet and the sailmaker I
dealt with was Sandy, a great job and so easy to handle the boat now.
Brian, M-17 "Peeper"
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 7:52 PM
I put a CDI furler on my M-15 this year and recommend it highly. I had my
genoa modified to work with the furler so going from full genny to a small
jib
takes seconds, and no one has to go forward. Maybe its just me, but the M15
seems to behave better with less foresail when the winds kick up at all.
It requires some modification to the forestay and my rigger suggested
replacing
all the standing rigging since it appeared to be original equipment. The
total for all was about $65. CDI recommends having a swivel at each end of
the
forestay, so I made the following modifications.
Add a "dog leg" to the existing thru bolt where the side shrouds attach. (I
don't know if that's the official name for the thing or not, I look for my
West
catalog and find out)
The upper swivel attaches to the dogleg with a shackle pin and split ring.
The
furler drum attaches to the bow fitting like the old forestay. With this
arrangement I can rig either the furler or the original set up. I take the
hanked jib and original forestay with me, although I haven't ever used it.
The only problem I had during installation was with the top fitting on the
furler hitting the mast as it rotated. The angle on the M15 forestay is
quite
small so I may have lost a inch of hoist overall so it wouldn't touch.
Rigging for launch takes an additional 10 minutes or so, and a little more
time
at the end of the day. I trailer with the furler completely off the mast.
The
assembly is almost exactly as long as the outside curve of the boat, so it
lays
neatly along curve of the toe rail, securely attached to the bow pulpit,
shrouds and rear cleat. It . My wife made a padded cover that protects the
drum from gunk while we are on the road.
Hope this helps.
Don Haas
M15-248, Dream Catcher
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
William B Riker wrote:
> I still haven't ordered sails. There are more options than I expected.
> Kern suggests roller furling, at $450, will save me the cost of a storm
> jib. Of course, it provides convenience and safety as well. Hogin
> suggests an asynch spinnaker (drifter, genniker) for light weather, but on
> Lake Erie I feel I'm more likely to need a storm jib than a genniker.
>
> The Harken 00 furler that Kern recommends is $761 in the West catalog, so
I
> will have to get back to him on where his $450 comes from. I know the CDI
> unit is costs about that much. And what about setup? Is a furler
> practical for a trailer-sailer? How much does it complicate the rigging
> process?
>
> Anyone thinking about going to Sail Expo in Atlantic City on Feb 4 - 7?
>
> Bill Riker
> M15 #184
> Storm Petrel
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Message 9 of 52

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: cdi roller furler
Date: 27 Jan 1999 13:01:48 EST
-----------------------------------

...what size cdi roller furler isrecommended for a monty 17
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Message 10 of 52

From: Brian Weir
Subject: RE: M_Boats: cdi roller furler
Date: 27 Jan 1999 13:32:56 -0600
-----------------------------------

It is called the MiniFurl(er). I got one from JSI and paid about $250 for
the gear and $250 for modifying the sail. Including shipping. Works great!!
Briasn L. WEIR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 12:02 PM
...what size cdi roller furler isrecommended for a monty 17
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Message 11 of 52

From: Michael & Lizabeth Towers
Subject: M_Boats: Inner stay on an M17
Date: 05 Feb 1999 17:48:28 -0600
-----------------------------------

I'm considering buying an M17 that has a 150% genoa on a CDI furler. I've
never owned a boat with roller furling and wonder what to do when the wind
really pipes up. The rule of thumb is that you can roller furl down 30%,
which in this case is about down to a working jib. Has anyone on the list
installed a removeable inner stay for a storm jib? If Jerry is listening,
what do you recommend?
Michael Towers
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Message 12 of 52

From: rland@win.bright.net
Subject: M_Boats: I finally got an M!
Date: 13 Jun 1999 10:32:47 -0600
-----------------------------------

Dear Montgomery listers,
Well, I finally got an M! After a few almost-worked-out-but-not-quite
deals, surprise surgery, and a trip from Lake Superior to Texas and back
to pick up the boat, I'm the proud owner of a 1981 M-17 (serial #
MMP3341081).
I've been lurking on the list for so long that I feel like I know
everyone! I actually did post a couple of times last winter, but then
figured I'd just "listen," and pore over the archives, until I got a
boat. I'll be sailing on Lake Superior -- just down the shore from Randy
Palmer's new CD30. For now, there won't be much "trailer" in trailer
sailing, as I don't have a vehicle big enough to tow the boat.
I've always liked boats and water. I've kayaked, rowed, and
motorboated, but I'm new to sailing, for all practical purposes. I've
sailed on other people's boats a dozen or so times, but that's it. I
just couldn't resist sailing any longer. Something about that magical
moment when the motor's turned off and all you can hear is the rustle of
sails, the creak of the rigging (was on wooden boats, I hope my rigging
doesn't creak :-), and the lapping of the water.
Now that I've got the boat home, I'm full of questions. I didn't get
any instruction from the previous owner, so I'm a bit mystified by all
the rigging, etc. With great self-control, I'm going to limit myself to
ten questions this time. I hope this isn't too many, but I guess
there's always the delete button...
1) The keel roller bracket on the trailer broke (when the boat was
almost home), so I'm going to install a new one. The trailer (I can't
tell what kind it is - all logos have been painted over - but it has a
vertical post holding the bow stop vs. the forward canted ones I've seen
on other trailers) has two long bunk boards with a support at each end,
and one 10" keel roller. Here's my question: What percentage of the
boat's weight should be on the roller and what percentage on the bunks?
I can no longer tell what the original ratio was or even if it was
adjusted correctly before it broke. When I go to install the new roller
and bracket is it OK to jack the boat up a little by putting a piece of
wood under the keel and then jacking it up from there?
2) There's no ventilation capability on the boat right now, and it
gets really hot and stuffy in there. At least there's nothing that
could be left open in the rain or while it's sitting at the marina.
I've been looking at the Nicro solar vents, and I'm wondering where
others have put theirs and if they're effective. Do you then install
dorades somewhere else to let air in?
3) My 17 came with a kick-up rudder made by the previous owner (who
owns a fabricating business). It's the original rudder modified to kick
up and looks to be well done. Ironically, our water is all pretty deep
around here. I've heard others asking about a kick-up -- I'd be willing
to share details of how mine was done if anyone is interested, or even
to trade for a non-kick-up as I don't anticipate using it.
4) The boat came with a main, and a sail on a Harken furler (would
this be a genoa?). It's not a reefer, just a furler. I don't
understand how this would be of use. What would you do if conditions
called for less than the full sail? Comments?
5) There's no battery on the boat now although there are running
lights and a fuse panel and maybe a bilge pump (hard to see in that
spot). The boat came with a 4hp Yamaha, but it doesn't have an
alternator. I'm thinking of a 95 amp hour gel battery and a 10 watt
flexible solar panel. Has anyone used this set-up, and if so, does the
solar panel provide enough charging? I figure on having a VHF, a
Humminbird fish finder that I already have, maybe a future stereo
(minimal use), and running/anchor lights. There's no electricity
available at my slip, and since I won't be trailering it, it would be
difficult to use a regular charger.
6) The mast has various scuffs and scrapes. Do I need to worry about
this?
7) The teak trim is gray and grooved. It seems like it might be
easier just to take it off to refinish. I gather from the archives that
3M 4200 would be good for re-bedding - what's the preferred technique
for actually doing it? Do you just lay a bead on the item and then
stick it on the deck? Tighten all at once or over a period of time?
8) When people say they've sandblasted and epoxied the keel, what type
of epoxy do they mean? I'm just familiar with the boatbuilding type,
but would this be a type of paint instead?
9) The boat came with a stern pulpit that's never been installed, but
looks as though it would be a nice addition. It's basically a U shape
with four legs - the front two go on top of the coamings and the back
two on the stern (right where there are currently two black cleats - jam
cleats perhaps). How have others mounted the stern pulpit? Is there a
clever way to get to the backside to tighten the nuts? How much of a
backing plate would be called for? I've heard mention of a way where
one can just epoxy the bolts in and not use a backing, but it sounds
suspect to me. Has anyone tried it?
10) You may have noticed that none of these questions are actually
about sailing :-) That's because I decided to be smart for a change and
pay someone else to prepare and paint the bottom (at which time I'm
going to bring the centerboard to a sandblaster), and it can't be done
until early July. Would there by any chance be anyone within a couple
hundred miles of NW Wisconsin who would need any crew on a 17? I'd
really like to see another one (rigged!). I think it would be very
helpful in figuring out how to set mine up. Not to mention some actual
sailing experience :-)
By the way, my boat was towed all the way back from Texas (behind a
Toyota pickup with a 4-cylinder) with a trailer that has radials, and it
trailed like a dream. I almost stopped worrying for a couple of minutes
in Missouri...
Thanks in advance for any advice, and I've had a great winter and
spring reading the M-list --- Rachel
P.S. I think I'm going to name it "Sparkle."
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Message 13 of 52

From: mikit

Date: 30 Jan 2000 01:08:19 -0700
-----------------------------------

It's been about five months now that I have been looking at the CDI foil
against the baseboard of an upstairs room. I purchased the unit at the end
of last season; unsure if I should have a new Genoa made or modify one of
the sails that came with our boat. Considering the Kern working jib and the
McKibbin 130% Genoa are 17 years old, I decided to go new even though these
sails are in fair condition.
I solicited bids for an M-17 Genoa from a dozen sail makers with Hogan,
North, Doyle, Banks (2 lofts), and Neil Pryde (2 lofts) responding to my
inquiry. Five lofts did not respond. I also requested the sail makers
explain why their product was the best choice for my boat. I provided a
sail plan with required measurements. The sail would be a 150% Genoa for
use on a CDI Flexible Furler requiring a #6 Luff tape. I requested the
quote on a premium performance cruise sail made with their highest premium
Dacron cloth suitable for roller furling. Optimum performance would be
required in the 8 to 15 knot apparent wind ranges but must have confidence
it could withstand 15 to 20 on occasion without fear of overstressing the
sail. The quote was to include foam Luff pad as well as lightweight UV
protective edges on foot and leech. Like most that have purchase a sail, I
requested a quality product with durability and longevity as well as good
performance. All lofts specified Challenger 4.9-oz sailcloth with the
exception of North who has something called Nordac Dacron at 4.7 oz.
I was surprised at the cost of a foresail now days as well as the spread.
The low quote was $535, the high of $1027 and a median of $ 800. What
drives the price up is the cost of the foam luff and UV protective edges.
$350 extra for these two item on the Neil Pryde . Add the $135 trade winds
package and Neil Pryde made the highest Quote. By eliminating the UV
protection, foam luff and Trade winds package, the Neil P. sail drops from
$1027 to $542. I do like their cruise plus line and think if would be
sufficient for my needs with the trade winds package being unnecessary for
my requirements.
The UV protected foot and leach is an area I am not sure of. I don't like
the term sacrificial edge, leaving me to believe I would be replacing this
stuff every so often. There is the option of Sunbrella sewn on the edge,
but I think it would be much to heavy for a relatively small sail like
this. I am leaning towards no UV edge and making a Sunbrella sock that
would be pulled over the furled sail with the jib halyard. (The CDI unit
has its own halyard) Sailrite sells a furler cover kit with a 20' zipper
for a reasonable price.
The foam luff is another area I am struggling with. Is it necessary on this
size genoa? I do want to be able to reef to 110% LP or so if necessary
and still have some efficiency. It seems to me that the foam would, over
time, take a set and possibly develop a kink in the luff. Neil P.'s
solution is multiple foam strips; North's solution is multiple ropes sewn
in, both claim this allows more efficient rolling of the sail on the foil.
I am leaning toward Neil P. or North as they did the best job of explaining
the benefit and construction of their product. Any comments or suggestions
would be appreciated.
Mike M-17 #369
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Message 14 of 52

From: Shawn Boles
Subject: M_Boats: 4 stroke motor opinions
Date: 30 Jan 2000 15:35:54 -0800
-----------------------------------

Hi All:
As part of winter refurbishing of my M17, I am planning on buying a four
stroke long shaft motor to replace the nasty little 2 stoke 2 hp short shaft
kicker I now have. I am looking for M owners opinions about the best motor
to buy. I need a motor that will fight currents in the San Juans and Puget
Sound and that has an alternator. Ideally it would have an integral gas tank
as well, but the motors I have looked at (5 hp) all have external tanks. I
am considering:
Honda 5hp |
Nissan 5hp - all have external tank and alternator
Merc 5 hp |
Yamaha 4HP (integral tank/ no alternator)
Some questions:
1. Is 4hp too little for coastal/island cruising?
2. Other motors I should look at?

Thanks in advance.
cheers,
Shawn Boles
'Grey Mist' (M17 Hull#276 - 1978)
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 12:08 AM
It's been about five months now that I have been looking at the CDI foil
against the baseboard of an upstairs room. I purchased the unit at the end
of last season; unsure if I should have a new Genoa made or modify one of
the sails that came with our boat. Considering the Kern working jib and the
McKibbin 130% Genoa are 17 years old, I decided to go new even though these
sails are in fair condition.
I solicited bids for an M-17 Genoa from a dozen sail makers with Hogan,
North, Doyle, Banks (2 lofts), and Neil Pryde (2 lofts) responding to my
inquiry. Five lofts did not respond. I also requested the sail makers
explain why their product was the best choice for my boat. I provided a
sail plan with required measurements. The sail would be a 150% Genoa for
use on a CDI Flexible Furler requiring a #6 Luff tape. I requested the
quote on a premium performance cruise sail made with their highest premium
Dacron cloth suitable for roller furling. Optimum performance would be
required in the 8 to 15 knot apparent wind ranges but must have confidence
it could withstand 15 to 20 on occasion without fear of overstressing the
sail. The quote was to include foam Luff pad as well as lightweight UV
protective edges on foot and leech. Like most that have purchase a sail, I
requested a quality product with durability and longevity as well as good
performance. All lofts specified Challenger 4.9-oz sailcloth with the
exception of North who has something called Nordac Dacron at 4.7 oz.
I was surprised at the cost of a foresail now days as well as the spread.
The low quote was $535, the high of $1027 and a median of $ 800. What
drives the price up is the cost of the foam luff and UV protective edges.
$350 extra for these two item on the Neil Pryde . Add the $135 trade winds
package and Neil Pryde made the highest Quote. By eliminating the UV
protection, foam luff and Trade winds package, the Neil P. sail drops from
$1027 to $542. I do like their cruise plus line and think if would be
sufficient for my needs with the trade winds package being unnecessary for
my requirements.
The UV protected foot and leach is an area I am not sure of. I don't like
the term sacrificial edge, leaving me to believe I would be replacing this
stuff every so often. There is the option of Sunbrella sewn on the edge,
but I think it would be much to heavy for a relatively small sail like
this. I am leaning towards no UV edge and making a Sunbrella sock that
would be pulled over the furled sail with the jib halyard. (The CDI unit
has its own halyard) Sailrite sells a furler cover kit with a 20' zipper
for a reasonable price.
The foam luff is another area I am struggling with. Is it necessary on this
size genoa? I do want to be able to reef to 110% LP or so if necessary
and still have some efficiency. It seems to me that the foam would, over
time, take a set and possibly develop a kink in the luff. Neil P.'s
solution is multiple foam strips; North's solution is multiple ropes sewn
in, both claim this allows more efficient rolling of the sail on the foil.
I am leaning toward Neil P. or North as they did the best job of explaining
the benefit and construction of their product. Any comments or suggestions
would be appreciated.
Mike M-17 #369
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Message 15 of 52

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter/Reacher
Date: 01 Apr 2000 22:45:53 EST
-----------------------------------

In a message dated 4/1/00 5:45:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time, rqlhgl@wt.net
writes:
<< Try Port Townsend Sails (Carol Hasse), they made me a 380 sq ft
"Spindrifter"
for my M23 >>
Hey Dick
Did you scarf up on that CDI Roller Furler? I haven't seen anything else
on the list....
Lenny
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Message 16 of 52

From: Doug King
Subject: M_Boats: Your opinion is requested
Date: 04 Apr 2000 01:28:42 -0400 (EDT)
-----------------------------------

Hello fellow travelers,
I would like to get your opinion on an idea. I know this is long, but please
bear with me on this.
I have learned much from, and enjoyed many (too many) hours reading the
information that everyone posts here. This is really a great group of people
who are incredibly helpful and patient with those of us just getting started
with Montgomerys. This listserver is just an excellent example of the kinds
of services the internet should be used for. And since I can not yet
contribute much technical info on sailing, maintenance, how-to, and on and
on, (as is evident from some of my posts), I do however, have experience in
setting up and maintaining web sites.
I've spoken to Keith Diehl (go for it) and am waiting to hear from Theo, but
most of all I would like to know what you think of my setting up a web site
devoted solely to the Mongomery line.
The important thing would be to carry items pertinent to the Montgomery, not
just general info that can already be found out there on a dozen web sites.
I have found a hosting service that provides the kind of web/database
applications that I'm fairly familiar with. It means we can build a bunch of
databases, such as:
1. A searchable contact list of Montgomery and/or similar size boat owners
(Potters, Compacs?) with information on where people live, type of boat,
sailing areas, type of sailing, etc. It could facilitate finding other folks
to sail/socialize with, or whatever. The whole thing would of course be
voluntary, as would the amount of info anyone would want to provide, beyond
some basic required contact info. One could search by state, region, city,
or person's name to find for instance, someone's email address quickly.
People could also choose to list their areas of expertise or experience so
that others could contact them for help in those areas.
Other ideas:
2. A database of Montgomery specifications and measurements;
3. Original equipment lists/manufacturers/scanned owner manuals (with
permission);
4. Line drawings of various boat and cabin layouts and years
manufactured (from the history doc);
5. Model numbers of third party accessories, such as trailers,
roller/furlers, etc.
6. Various how-to directions, preferably with images;
7. Montgomerys (and maybe similars) for sale;
8. A calendar od rendevous, raft-ups, and the like.
9. Links to Montgomery relevant sites
10. FAQs on specific subjects concerning Montgomerys - sail trim, kicker
motors (tables of pros and cons), rigging, sails, etc.
11. Trip stories/logs
12. Of course, links to the listserver--subscribe, unsubscribe info, etc.
Some of this can be dug out from the listserver, but much is still lurking
deep in the minds and maintenance logs of those of you who might be willing
to contribute. I know I can't gather all of the info alone, so it would mean
a little help occasionally from those of you willing to gather/contribute
info. It wouldn't take much more time than we already spend searching the
archives for the same info, and will be much easier to find on the web site.
For instance, someone might be willing to search the archives and put
together a FAQ on a subject that would be useful, as above. Someone else
might provide the answers or check over the answers that are dug out. Anyone
who contributes or helps would receive attribution for their work. I think
these projects would only take a few hours of work on rainy afternoons, or
while watching the tube at night. And thanks to search engines, you could
become well-known worldwide (or world-known well wide).
So there you have it. I am hoping you can tell me...
-what you think about the idea;
-the relative merits of some of the items listed;
-any other info/data you think would be useful to carry.
-if you might be willing to help out or contribute experience(s) a little as
above.
If there is interest and some willingness to help, I can send out a
follow-up email (short, I promise) with the ideas gathered to date and
anyone that wants to can rank them in importance.
Though it takes a little play-work, I'm happy to do it if you think it would
be useful to you. Of course, I would count on your critical/constructive
feedback on how the web site would best serve everyone's needs. And anyone
with web site-building experience is welcome to help (especially graphics
stuff) It can actually be a productive and enjoyable activity to participate
in building a web site like this, as long as it remains fun for all.

I'd appreciate hearing from you on this,
Doug King
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Message 17 of 52

From: mikit

Date: 11 May 2000 00:36:06 -0700
-----------------------------------

Mike,
>Got the sailplan drawing (via Howard) on the web site last night Figured
>since you had offered earlier, it would be OK. Could you review the web
>page and correct or add a sentence or two? Not sure I have accurately
>described what is shown. It's under "Specifications", for lack of a better
>place for it at the moment.
>Could you give us a little background on the sailplan for the 150 genoa? Is
>this the design of yours, who cut it for you, and how is it working? Any
>other >particulars you want to give would be helpful. There is a lot of
>interest in going to a roller furler (including my own).
Doug,
I thought I would respond to your inquiry through the group so you can use
what you want as an explanation for the web page and edit the rest.
The M17 in profile with 150% Genoa that Howard sent to you was put together
by me as part of the process I went though to solicit bids and eventually
order a Genoa that was set up for a CDI Furling system. I created the
drawing in AutoCAD using as a reference, a portion of a well worn and
damaged drawing that was part of the paperwork that came with our boat. It
was necessary for me to take several measurements in order to supplement
portions of the original drawing that were missing or could not be read.
The Genoa was drawn taking in to consideration the constraints of furler
foil length, desired height of the clew, and standard 150% headsail
calculations. The drawing was provided as a dimension reference only with
the sail design left up to the sailmaker. The drawing was created full size
in AutoCAD and I believe the end results to be quite accurate. I exported
the file into a Word document, manipulating the size to approximatly 3/8"
=12" scale to allow the drawing to be opened by those who do not have
AutoCAD. That's the drawing Howard forwarded to you and is now included in
your web page.
The sailmaker I chose was North sails and the sail fits like a glove. I
tried the system out two weeks ago and the sail and furling system worked
great despite the low, 5-knot wind conditions. The only modification I
made to the original head stay was to add a one-inch toggle to the top. I
will send you an Excel attachment in a day or so, that includes all the
measurements and calculations I came up with during this process.
Mike Leonard
M17 #369
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Message 18 of 52

From: Doug King
Subject: M_Boats: Some more stuff on MSOG web site
Date: 21 Jun 2000 23:51:32 -0400
-----------------------------------

Howdy buckaroos,
I apologize for being remiss with the web site. Truth is, after the first
month of flurry, I got burnt out on it. I've taken a break and am getting
back into it again. To wit:
If you haven't been to the MSOG web site lately (msog.brinet.com), there's
some good stuff on roller furlers just put up, under Specifications. I'm
thinking we should change the name of the site to "Mike's Specifications
Output Gateway". Mike Leonard has sent some excellent specs, measurements,
details and such for roller-furlers. Wish we could get that kind of info
for other stuff (not-so-subtle hint).
I'm working on yours, Fritz. Don't give up on me yet.
We need to get some more links entered. If you're interested in helping,
email me and we'll work on it. It's very easy to do with the forms I've set
up--all cut and paste from the web.
Wouldn't mind seeing some FAQs developed. Basically thinking someone can
pick a topic they want to research anyway in the archives, or elsewhere. As
you find interesting info, just cut and paste it into a text file. You can
even make up the questions to fit the info. Send it in and I'll webify it.
Might be a good idea to send me your topic first to make sure nobody
overlaps or duplicates somebody else's work. Otherwise, go for it!
Finally, along with the web site, we have, at no extra cost, a chat room
for real time discussion (I've never used one, myself). It can be
passworded so not just any old yahoo can get in. Figure sending the
password out through the listserv would probably be restrictive enough. My
first idea was to schedule, or announcing spontaneously, a time when Jerry
Montgomery or Bob Eeg would be available for an hour or two a month to
answer questions. Upon inquiry, it appears their schedules probably won't
accommodate that. But who knows? Perhaps "If we build it, they will come".
Whether or not we can involve Jerry or Bob, what do y'all think about the
idea in general? Anybody can use it at anytime (subgroups, like East
coasters or West coasters), and/or we can have a scheduled time for general
discussion. In that case, we'd want to pick a time somewhat convenient to
all time zones, for example maybe like 4 p.m. ET, or 10 p.m. ET., on
Sundays or Mondays, or whenever. Whatever anyone thinks will work. If it's
a go, I'll figure it out, or maybe somebody more familiar with them can
help us, and we'll try to make it painless.
So what do you think? Would like to hear from you on any of the above.
Until then I remain, in sloth, your webservant,
Doug
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Message 19 of 52

From: "Kight, John C."
Subject: RE: M_Boats: howdy from Texas
Date: 06 Feb 2001 10:01:26 -0600
-----------------------------------

Hello everyone! This is my first post to this list. By the way, I was
registered owner #100, so I assume there's some sort of prize or something?
E-mail me for my mailing address...
I received my beautiful new (well, almost) M-17, "De Colores" on New Year's
Day, and it has rained (or sleeted) every weekend since then until this last
weekend when I got my first shot at rigging the boat. Everything went
smoothly, I got the mast up, shrouds attached, etc. with no problems.
Assembling and attaching the roller furler/forestay was the only tricky
part. I am wondering, however, how the shrouds and stays should be tuned.
I attached everything exactly as it was delivered to me, but I assume the
previous owner may have loosened some or all of the stays/shrouds to
disconnect them for shipping. In any event, the backstay and forestay are
"taut", but not overly tight, the outer side-stays (the full length ones)
seem very tight, and the inner side-stays (the half-length ones) are
extremely loose (no tension at all). Does all this sound correct? Any
suggestions?
It looks like with any luck I'll be on the water next weekend!! (And even
with bad luck I'll be IN the water.)
John
M17 "De Colores"
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 8:53 AM
go ahead make me feel bad this a.m. it's up to 75 today, clear, good wind,
stuck inside at work,
I'll come down soon, have a friend that lives close to you Jim Travis, we'll
meet up.
take care
Randy
>>> davenanc@gvtc.com 02/06/01 08:47AM >>>
Hey Randy
Going out this morning. Lots of wind and warm here at Canyon Lake. Come
over and let's sail some Sunday.
Dave
M17 #49
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 8:41 AM
> hi guys, I've been off the list for a while but glad to be back on.
>
> I'd like to hear from some other Texas based M sailors. I've spoken to 3-4
recently and the M boat presence here is slowly growing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Randy Watkins
> M15#194
>
>
>
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Message 20 of 52

From: leyake@juno.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Date: 24 Feb 2001 20:06:14 -0800
-----------------------------------

I have a question regarding roller furlers. I plan on ordering one this
spring for my M17 along with a 150 Genoa I'll have made for it. I was
leaning toward the CDI, but my sailmaker recommended the new Schaffer as
being better made and easier to clear in case of a jam with its open
spool. He had some problems with the older CDI's, but hasn't seen the
newer ball-bearing models. What kind of luck has anyone had with these?
Are they a big hassle for trailering or just a little more set-up? Also,
regarding the sail itself, any problems with a 150 on a furler? My
sailmaker is recommending a radial design, which would include a foam
luff tape to retain sail shape when furled, and a UV treated outer edge
for protection when furled. He avoids Sunbrella for that as being to
heavy. My other choices would be horizontal or vertical cut panels. Any
recommendations? We're thinking of maybe a 6oz. fabric for the first
(storm jib) sections, and progressing lighter as the sail is unfurled. I
would greatly appreciate recommendations on any of this.
Thanks,
Larry Yake
M17 #200
By the way, I'm considering tanbark for the sail. No extra cost and real
classy!
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Message 21 of 52

From: "Morris, Giles"
Subject: RE: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Date: 24 Feb 2001 22:24:05 -0600
-----------------------------------

> I was
>leaning toward the CDI, but my sailmaker recommended the new Schaffer as
>being better made and easier to clear in case of a jam with its open
>spool
My knowledge of furlers is limited, and the ProFurl that I decided on for
Dolphin isn't suitable for a trailered boat, but... I absolutely agree that
an open drum is a good idea.
>UV treated outer edge
>for protection when furled. He avoids Sunbrella for that
The trouble is that just about everything else doesn't work. After looking
at the alternatives, and the ratty luffs on every roller-furled boat without
a Sunbrella cover, I went with Sunbrella. However... If your boat lives on a
trailer, then the sail won't be exposed to the sun and it doesn't need a
cover at all.
>foam luff tape to retain sail shape when furled
Yep, I had an older (used) sail without the foam for a season, and then
bought a new 150 genoa with the foam, and the foam really does make a
difference to the general bagginess when you set the sail partially furled.
>By the way, I'm considering tanbark for the sail. No extra cost and real
>classy!
Classy and beautiful. And keeps the glare down. I was keen enough on tanbark
to almost settle for my second choice in sailcloth (first choice isn't
available in TB).
Giles Morris
Arlington VA
Montgomery 15 #264 "Umiaq"
Vancouver 25 #002 Dolphin
Sundry kayaks
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Message 22 of 52

From: mikit
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Date: 25 Feb 2001 00:15:04 -0800
-----------------------------------

>I have a question regarding roller furlers. I plan on ordering one this
>spring for my M17 along with a 150 Genoa I'll have made for it. I was
>leaning toward the CDI, but my sailmaker recommended the new Schaffer as
>being better made and easier to clear in case of a jam with its open
>spool. He had some problems with the older CDI's, but hasn't seen the
>newer ball-bearing models. What kind of luck has anyone had with these?
>Are they a big hassle for trailering or just a little more set-up? Also,
>regarding the sail itself, any problems with a 150 on a furler? My
>sailmaker is recommending a radial design, which would include a foam
>luff tape to retain sail shape when furled, and a UV treated outer edge
>for protection when furled. He avoids Sunbrella for that as being to
>heavy. My other choices would be horizontal or vertical cut panels. Any
>recommendations? We're thinking of maybe a 6oz. fabric for the first
>(storm jib) sections, and progressing lighter as the sail is unfurled.
>Thanks,
>Larry Yake
>M17 #200
We have the Flexible Furler 2 with bearing and 150% North Genoa.
Never any problems with jams or anything else for that matter. In my
opinion this furling/reefing unit would be hard to beat for a boat
the size of a M17. We step the mast, the genoa furled on the unit,
with no problem. It's a little heavy but still easy enough. The
unit, sail and all, is transported lashed to the mast. The only
headstay modification was the addition of a toggle. The unit is
strong, simple, works perfectly and is inexpensive as furlers go.
Our sail is 4.7 oz. cloth and is said to handle wind speeds of 25
knots. I especially like the foam luff substitute North uses. It is
a series of ropes of various lengths in a luff pocket and
surprisingly the sail maintains a good shape all the way into the
stowed position. We thought Sunbrella 9 oz. would be too heavy for a
sail this size so we specified a UV cover with lightweight 3.8 oz.
material on the foot and leech. Still looks new after one season in
the sun but in order to give more protection in the future, we've
fabricated a Sunbrella cover(sock) for the furled genoa that can be
hoisted with a halyard. It's a relief when you research and commit
financially to a furling/reefing system with sail replacement and
have the end products turn out as good if not better than you
expected.
Mike
M-17#369
>
>
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Message 23 of 52

From: Bob
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Date: 26 Feb 2001 09:24:33 -0800
-----------------------------------

Jerry
I don't think its feasible to change out a 135% Genoa to a 40% storm
Jib in a high wind.
While you can remove to sail from the CDI furler foil, its not
something I would want to do in a high wind on a pitching foredeck:-)
Really, there isn't any furling system that makes it easy to change out
sails in those conditions.
Best to roll her up. Even if you roll her up to a small storm jib
size the 'shape' of the sail won't be as good as a real, independent
40% storm jib. Thats the compromise of roller furling. Its great
for what it is and thats a 135% genny.
Everything else is less than ideal as far as sail shape goes.
What keeps the jib halyard from getting twisted while its
holding up the sail at the masthead?
It has a swivel attachment that allows the rolling system to
roll up the sail and the bottom of the swivel rolls with the system and
the top is stationary and attached to the jib halyard.
Fair winds
Bob
More 23 stuff later this week....
Jerry Lehner wrote:
> I've been thinking about getting a foresail reefing furler, mostly for
> the safety and ease of use it would provide. The CDI is the one most
> of the furler owners on the list seem to like so I'll probably go with
> that one. But I have a couple of questions that in my research
> haven't been answered yet. One has to do with the 40% storm jib I had
> made up. Only had to use it a couple of times so far but it has been
> great. If I had a furler, and had a problem with the normal genoa
> furling headsail, is it feasible, in a higher wind, to change it out
> to my storm jib? My other question is a simple one of furler
> operation. I have never seen one in actual use and can visualize all
> but this. I assume that the jib halyard raises and holds the sail
> with the luff rope or tape sliding within the opening which runs the
> length of the furler. What keeps the halyard from wrapping itself
> around the stay when the sail is being let out or furled?
>
> Jerry
> #39
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 24 of 52

From: Howard A
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Date: 26 Feb 2001 19:19:20 -0600
-----------------------------------

Jerry Lehner wrote:
> If I had a furler, and had a problem with the normal genoa furling headsail,
> is it feasible, in a
> higher wind, to change it out to my storm jib?
Don't some of the boats that use a roller jib have a second forestay to hank
the storm jib onto? At least those that are rigged for heavy weather?
Another sail related question, the other evening on the Chat board, Tod
mentioned something about lusting after an Asymetrical spinnaker. Of the
limited exposure I have had with a full fledged spinnaker, I'd have no use for
one on my boat, as I couldn't handle one by myself. But an asymetrical.....that
might be another story. Much more versitile and really usefull in a number of
light air applications. What are they related to...maybe a 180% genny or
larger?
For those of you who have them, what is your opinion? Can you fly one free with
a genny, wing and wing so to speak, to get better light air performance
downwind? Really like the looks of the one PeterBuilt (sorry...couldn't resist
that one). BTW, Enfin may be the best looking M-17 I've seen to date. The care
shows!
Howard
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Message 25 of 52

From: "Bill Riker"
Subject: M_Boats: RE: Asymmetrical spinnaker
Date: 26 Feb 2001 22:05:15 -0500
-----------------------------------

Howard,
There are a couple of pics of Storm Petrel's asym on the MSOG, "Bill and
Tod's Excellent Adventure." I don't have a genoa, so I can't make the
comparison, but I use the asym from a beam reach on back, in light wind.
It's easy enough to handle once you've done it a couple of times. Get it
down before the wind comes up too much, or you'll have your hands full.
It's great poled out wing and wing with the main. You do have the
accidental jibe hazard, if you're careless, but you can let the asym way
forward, sailing it by the lee, and reduce the hazard considerably.
On the M15, the asym (I like the term drifter) attaches about a foot higher
in the mast than the jib, so the tack is ahead of the forestay. So, tacking
means you have to take it forward of the forestay. You don't want to use
it on short tacks. I guess you'd use the jib halyard on a 17, and would be
able to tack it like a genny.
Maybe, if the wind is right, I'll try letting the drifter fly free and
jibing around to get it over to the other side.
Bill Riker
M-15 #184
Storm Petrel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Howard A
Sent: February 26, 2001 8:19 PM
Jerry Lehner wrote:
> If I had a furler, and had a problem with the normal genoa furling
headsail,
> is it feasible, in a
> higher wind, to change it out to my storm jib?
Don't some of the boats that use a roller jib have a second forestay to hank
the storm jib onto? At least those that are rigged for heavy weather?
Another sail related question, the other evening on the Chat board, Tod
mentioned something about lusting after an Asymetrical spinnaker. Of the
limited exposure I have had with a full fledged spinnaker, I'd have no use
for
one on my boat, as I couldn't handle one by myself. But an
asymetrical.....that
might be another story. Much more versitile and really usefull in a number
of
light air applications. What are they related to...maybe a 180% genny or
larger?
For those of you who have them, what is your opinion? Can you fly one free
with
a genny, wing and wing so to speak, to get better light air performance
downwind? Really like the looks of the one PeterBuilt (sorry...couldn't
resist
that one). BTW, Enfin may be the best looking M-17 I've seen to date. The
care
shows!
Howard
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Message 26 of 52

From: Doug King
Subject: M_Boats: New MSOG Database Needs You
Date: 19 Mar 2001 19:06:33 -0500
-----------------------------------

Hola,
For a few months, I've been trying to figure out a way to collect the
information we cycle through on the listserver every once in a while. I
have beseeched folks to volunteer to put together collections of email
posts on specific subjects. Kept thinking about a FAQ-type format but it
really didn't fit, and personally, I don't like 'em. Anyway, I never got
any takers--I found out why after putting together the M-15 vs. M-17
comparison posts. Talk about a boatload of work! (so to speak). And that
was taking posts from my In mailbox--I can't imagine how difficult it would
be to go back through the archives and put something together.
But I think I've solved the problem. I spent the weekend writing a database
for just this sort of thing (gives you some idea of how exciting my life
is.) It is sorta half-survey and half-opinion, a new format I have
christened the Owner's Opinion List.
First Subject: OUTBOARDS!
The short 3-item survey asks what motor you currently own, your
satisfaction with it, and what you are considering/evaluating/would
consider for your next motor, if you were in the market. It's quick and
short, but gets the basic info.
The most important part is the big ol' text area. Please add your thoughts
to it--it should make for less work in the long run. Since so many have
already sent in posts to the list the past week or so, you can probably
look in your Out mailbox and copy and paste from your recent posts into the
text box. I've done mine to give an idea of how a record looks.
Only deal: you gotta be in the Owners Registry, from which I grab your boat
length, year and other info that puts your contribution into context. When
we reach a critical mass, I will start a running tally of motor by boat
length and average satisfaction level with pretty color graphs and fancy
tables
and-8X10-B&W-glossy-photographs-with-a-description-on-the-back-of-each-
one-explaining-what-it-is [Alice's Restaurant] and other useless
accoutrements, like the Owners Registry has where, interestingly, "Randy"
is the most common name.
It's designed to be relatively easy to create several similar lists. I
figure we can update the records every couple of years to keep it current.
It'll still be less work than the postings that you all are so kind to post
every 3 months or so.
I'm also interested to know what the next subject should be. Based on the
number of recent posts, I'm thinking "Roller-Furlers", followed by "Wooden
Bungs" (just kidding.)
I've also added (without their permission) Scott Grometer's great
evaluation of 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke motors, as well as Tim McInerney's
Small Outboards Specifications Comparison. You can get to both of them from
this new Outboards Opinion List page, listed on the Side Menu.
Please take a look at it, and contribute, at
http://msog.brinet.net/cfmods/outboards.cfm. It seemed to work OK in
testing, but if you have any problems with it, let me know asap so I can
fix 'em. I apologize for not asking for your input on this first one since
it's kind of different, but I hope once you get a look at it, you'll have
ideas to improve the next one.
Thanks,
Doug
Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"
MSOG Web site: http://msog.brinet.net
Email: mailto:msog@brinet.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 27 of 52

From: Tom Smith
Subject: RE: M_Boats: New MSOG Database Needs You
Date: 19 Mar 2001 16:18:38 -0800
-----------------------------------

...I'm worried about you Doug. Do we need to find you a girlfriend? A
puppy? As usual, great job, and very imaginative. T
Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle
M15/345 -- Chukar
Sandpoint, Idaho
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 4:07 PM
Hola,
For a few months, I've been trying to figure out a way to collect the
information we cycle through on the listserver every once in a while. I
have beseeched folks to volunteer to put together collections of email
posts on specific subjects. Kept thinking about a FAQ-type format but it
really didn't fit, and personally, I don't like 'em. Anyway, I never got
any takers--I found out why after putting together the M-15 vs. M-17
comparison posts. Talk about a boatload of work! (so to speak). And that
was taking posts from my In mailbox--I can't imagine how difficult it would
be to go back through the archives and put something together.
But I think I've solved the problem. I spent the weekend writing a database
for just this sort of thing (gives you some idea of how exciting my life
is.) It is sorta half-survey and half-opinion, a new format I have
christened the Owner's Opinion List.
First Subject: OUTBOARDS!
The short 3-item survey asks what motor you currently own, your
satisfaction with it, and what you are considering/evaluating/would
consider for your next motor, if you were in the market. It's quick and
short, but gets the basic info.
The most important part is the big ol' text area. Please add your thoughts
to it--it should make for less work in the long run. Since so many have
already sent in posts to the list the past week or so, you can probably
look in your Out mailbox and copy and paste from your recent posts into the
text box. I've done mine to give an idea of how a record looks.
Only deal: you gotta be in the Owners Registry, from which I grab your boat
length, year and other info that puts your contribution into context. When
we reach a critical mass, I will start a running tally of motor by boat
length and average satisfaction level with pretty color graphs and fancy
tables
and-8X10-B&W-glossy-photographs-with-a-description-on-the-back-of-each-
one-explaining-what-it-is [Alice's Restaurant] and other useless
accoutrements, like the Owners Registry has where, interestingly, "Randy"
is the most common name.
It's designed to be relatively easy to create several similar lists. I
figure we can update the records every couple of years to keep it current.
It'll still be less work than the postings that you all are so kind to post
every 3 months or so.
I'm also interested to know what the next subject should be. Based on the
number of recent posts, I'm thinking "Roller-Furlers", followed by "Wooden
Bungs" (just kidding.)
I've also added (without their permission) Scott Grometer's great
evaluation of 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke motors, as well as Tim McInerney's
Small Outboards Specifications Comparison. You can get to both of them from
this new Outboards Opinion List page, listed on the Side Menu.
Please take a look at it, and contribute, at
http://msog.brinet.net/cfmods/outboards.cfm. It seemed to work OK in
testing, but if you have any problems with it, let me know asap so I can
fix 'em. I apologize for not asking for your input on this first one since
it's kind of different, but I hope once you get a look at it, you'll have
ideas to improve the next one.
Thanks,
Doug
Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"
MSOG Web site: http://msog.brinet.net
Email: mailto:msog@brinet.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 28 of 52

From: Larry E Yake
Subject: Re: M_Boats: The List
Date: 16 Apr 2001 21:43:58 -0700
-----------------------------------

Stephen,
I loved your "tongue in cheek" list the other day. I chuckled all weekend
about it. I'm one of those new sailors (notice I didn't say young) who
are thoroughly obsessed with their boats and all the new things to learn.
I don't contribute to the list too often because I don't want to be a
pest, asking questions all the time, but when I do, the advice has been
great. For an update on my boat and sailing plans: I still haven't
decided on a new name; I'm in the process of installing a CDI roller
furler and having a 150 genoa made; I get to do my first bottom paint job
soon, complete with centerboard de-rust and repaint; I've rented a slip
at a local lake for the season to get more sailing time in so I'll be
ready for some real sailing later; I just purchased a used 4HP electric
motor to get by on this little lake until I can afford the 4HP Yamaha I
want; and if all goes as hoped this summer, I'll be at the Northwest
Rendevous at the San Juans this fall. Then I can really pester you
experienced boaters as I crawl all over your boats, grill you with a
hundred sailing questions, and maybe someday, I'll be one of the "Old
Salts" passing on advice to the new guys. This is a great list guys. Keep
it up.
Larry Yake
M17 #200
P.S. Good luck on your race this weekend, Stephen.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 29 of 52

From: "Kight, John C."
Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Roller Furling Jib/Forestay
Date: 22 Jun 2001 09:22:59 -0500
-----------------------------------

Is there a way to adjust the length of the cable running through the M-17's
roller furling jib, that serves as the forestay? Or is the length of the
roller furler/forestay supposed to be correct as built? I have the feeling
that my forestay is too slack, but, with the roller furling jib, I can't see
any obvious way of adjusting this.
Any advice would be welcome!!
Regards,
John Kight
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 10:14 PM
m 17, freshly repainted, reworked galvanized trailer, new center board, dry
docked for 7 years, $3500
361 9499386
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 30 of 52

From: Michael & Lizabeth Towers
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 Roller Furling Jib/Forestay
Date: 22 Jun 2001 12:56:51 -0500
-----------------------------------

>Is there a way to adjust the length of the cable running through the M-17's
>roller furling jib, that serves as the forestay? Or is the length of the
>roller furler/forestay supposed to be correct as built? I have the feeling
>that my forestay is too slack, but, with the roller furling jib, I can't see
>any obvious way of adjusting this.
If it's a CDI furler, the following applies. The turnbuckle is inside the
drum. Pull the pin at the top of the drum and slide it up the forestay to
expose the turnbuckle. Make sure you cotter pin the turnbuckle after
adjusting it so it doesn't come unscrewed.
The M17 sails best with some mast rake. Here's what Jerry Montgomery has to
say about it:
I always sailed the 17 with quite a bit of rake- probably about a foot
although I never measured it and it would be different with different
sails. Getting the rake right makes all the difference in the world in
how the boat goes upwind. You should have a light weather helm, even in
light air, with the boat heeled ten degrees or so. Play around with it
and the boat will tell you when it's happy by pointing higher and going
faster, unless you have blown-out sails, in which case all the boat will
tell you is "I need new sails and I refuse to go upwind until I get
them"
I alway tune the uppers a little tighter than the lowers, but still not
real tight. Check the mast when driving hard (on both tacks) and the
mast should be straight from side-to-side. I always used a backstay
adjustor and tightened the headstay with it when going upwind in a blow,
and easing it off in light air to let it sag a little to make the genoa
a little fuller and to open up the slot; also reaching unless you are
being overpowered.
Jerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 31 of 52

From: Michael & Lizabeth Towers
Subject: M_Boats: Mast rake and racing ratings
Date: 11 Jul 2001 22:47:46 -0500
-----------------------------------

Mast rake on an M17 isn't something you can measure with a tape. Wait for a
light air day and rake it until you have just a little weather helm. This
assumes you have your jib leads placed properly so the sail luffs evenly
from top to bottom and that your mainsail isn't over or under trimmed.
If your forestay isn't long enough, you can always put a toggle at the top
to add an extra couple of inches (if you have roller furling you should
have one up there anyway). My forestay still needed more length, so I use a
tang at the deck end. A tang is simply a short piece of flat stainless with
holes in it. I use two of them doubled for strength. You can cut them to
whatever length you need--a much cheaper fix than a new forestay.
I do use a tape measure to tune the outer sidestays. I hoist the tape using
the main halyard and measure to each toe rail to get the mast square from
side to side, and once I've got it straight I snug up the stays one turn at
a time on each side until they're fairly tight. Then I snug up the inners
one turn at time until they're slightly less tight than the outers. When
you're sailing with crew, have them drive while you lie on the deck and
sight up the mast. It should be straight from side to side. If it's falling
off to leeward at the top, tighten the outer; if it's bowing to leeward at
the spreaders, tighten the inner. It works for me.
I race my M17 in a few local races each season. We use the Portsmouth
Yardstick ratings put out by the United States Sailing Association. Your
elapsed time is multiplied by 100 and then divided by your boat's handicap.
The handicaps are based on a combination of boat testing and actual race
results. A low handicap indicates a fast boat, a high handicap a slow boat.
The M17' s is 104.3, the M15 has a provisional rating of 108.1 (not enough
reported race results to confirm the rating), and the M23 has a provisional
rating of 94.8. In contrast, the West Wright Potter 15 has a rating of
138.1. You guys had better beat them when you're match racing! Another Lyle
Design, the Balboa 20, has a rating of 104.1, almost identical to the M17.
My 13-year-old son and I are able to race our M17 competitively against
Macgregors, 20'+ O'Days, and a variety of other cabin boats with ratings in
the low 90's. We usually beat them on handicap, and on light air days
sometimes beat them to the finish line. The M17 is easier than most boats
to sail up to its rating in a drifter. We're racing with a 150% genoa on a
CDI furler and no spinnaker (poling the genoa on runs and broad reaches).
If anyone has a spinnaker and pole they're not using, I'm in the market for
one.
Michael Towers
M17 #226 (1976)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 32 of 52

From: Doug King
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 sold
Date: 12 Jul 2001 22:42:05 -0400
-----------------------------------

--=====================_2928594==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Done. Glad the web site could be of service. Maybe I should start taking a
1/2% commission, we'd pay off the web site costs with enough for me to get a
roller-furler. :)
Thanks and Good Luck,
Doug
At 03:43 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello Doug,
>
>Thanks to the M-boats page, I sold my M-15. Can you take the listing
>down off the site? Thanks, and thanks for all the effort to maintain
>the M-boats page. I still read it and receive the M-boats e-mails but
>I got the boat-building bug so bad I had to sell the M-15 to feed the
>habit. . .
>
>
>Good sailing,
>
>Seth
Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"
MSOG Web site: http://msog.org
Email: mailto:msog@msog.org
--=====================_2928594==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



Done. Glad the web site could be of service.  Maybe I
should start taking a 1/2% commission, we'd pay off the web site costs
with enough for me to get a roller-furler. :)



Thanks and Good Luck,



Doug



At 03:43 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote:

>Hello Doug,

>

>Thanks to the M-boats page, I sold my M-15. Can you take the listing


>down off the site? Thanks, and thanks for all the effort to maintain


>the M-boats page. I still read it and receive the M-boats e-mails but


>I got the boat-building bug so bad I had to sell the M-15 to feed the


>habit. . .

>

>

>Good sailing,

>

>Seth





Doug King

M-17 #404 "Vixen"



MSOG Web site:
http://msog.org

Email:
mailto:msog@msog.org
--=====================_2928594==_.ALT--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 33 of 52

From: Doug King
Subject: M_Boats: Will compile.
Date: 12 Jul 2001 23:13:39 -0400
-----------------------------------

--=====================_4822799==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've saved the posts about tuning and raking and will compile a list from them,
with Jerry's new, and previous, comments at the top.
I assume everyone knows I was just kidding in the previous post (unless someone
really WANTS to pay a--nah, I was just kidding. Although a roller-furler would
be--Nah, I must have been kidding.
Doug
Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"
Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org
Email: mailto:msog@msog.org
--=====================_4822799==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"


I've saved the posts about tuning and raking and will compile a list
from them, with Jerry's new, and previous, comments at the top.



I assume everyone knows I was just kidding in the previous post
(unless someone really WANTS to pay a--nah, I was just kidding. Although
a roller-furler would be--Nah, I must have been kidding.



Doug







------------------------------------------

Doug King

M-17 #404 "Vixen"



Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site:
http://msog.org

Email:
mailto:msog@msog.org
--=====================_4822799==_.ALT--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 34 of 52

From: Bob
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Will compile.
Date: 12 Jul 2001 20:20:48 -0700
-----------------------------------

--------------090508090205030909070606
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Doug
You should charge something simple like a case of
your favorite wine......
Bob
Doug King wrote:
>
> I've saved the posts about tuning and raking and will compile a list
> from them, with Jerry's new, and previous, comments at the top.
>
>
> I assume everyone knows I was just kidding in the previous post
> (unless someone really WANTS to pay a--nah, I was just kidding.
> Although a roller-furler would be--Nah, I must have been kidding.
>
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> Doug King
> M-17 #404 "Vixen"
>
> Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org
>
> Email: mailto:msog@msog.org
--------------090508090205030909070606
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Doug

You should charge something simple like a case of

your favorite wine......



Bob



Doug King wrote:



I've saved the posts about tuning and raking and will compile a list
from them, with Jerry's new, and previous, comments at the top.



I assume everyone knows I was just kidding in the previous post
(unless someone really WANTS to pay a--nah, I was just kidding. Although
a roller-furler would be--Nah, I must have been kidding.



Doug







------------------------------------------

Doug King

M-17 #404 "Vixen"


Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site:
http://msog.org

Email:
mailto:msog@msog.org




--------------090508090205030909070606--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 35 of 52

From: (Larry Yake)
Subject: M_Boats: Cruising spinnaker
Date: Sat Dec 8 23:06:38 2001
-----------------------------------

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----__JNP_000_31ee.175c.562b
Hello fellow sailors,
We are totally snowbound up here in the Inland Northwest (40 inches of
snow in 3 days last week) and sailing season is far away, so naturally,
sailing is foremost in my dreams. Specifically, a new cruising
spinnaker. I have a CDI roller furler, with a 150 genoa, which is a
little too heavy for a lot of the light air sailing we get around here.
I've heard of a drifter/cruising spinnaker design built to work over a
furled sail with a bead-loop system of raising and lowering. Has anyone
out there had any experience with this, or care to comment on the merits,
or "de-merits" thereof?
Thanks,
Larry Yake
M17 #200
Tullamore
----__JNP_000_31ee.175c.562b






Hello fellow sailors,

  We are totally snowbound up here in the Inland Northwest (=
40=20
inches of snow in 3 days last week) and sailing season is far away, so=20
naturally, sailing is foremost in my dreams.  Specifically, a new =
cruising=20
spinnaker.  I have a CDI roller furler, with a 150 genoa, which is a =
little=20
too heavy for a lot of the light air sailing we get around here. I've heard=
of a=20
drifter/cruising spinnaker design built to work over a furled sail with a=20
bead-loop system of raising and lowering. Has anyone out there had any=20
experience with this, or care to comment on the merits, or "de-merits"=20
thereof?

Thanks,

Larry Yake

M17 #200

Tullamore


----__JNP_000_31ee.175c.562b--

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Message 36 of 52

From: (Don Haas)
Subject: M_Boats: Cruising spinnaker
Date: Mon Dec 10 03:40:11 2001
-----------------------------------

--------------DC563219FE53D2B1887E00A9
Hi Larry;
I have a CDI furler on my M-15 and instead on going the beaded loop
route, I hoist the drifter on the original jib halyard. That
arrangement works ok on the fractional rigged M-15. I'm not sure how it
would work on your M-17.
Don Haas
M15 #248
Dream Catcher
Larry Yake wrote:
> Hello fellow sailors, We are totally snowbound up here in the Inland
> Northwest (40 inches of snow in 3 days last week) and sailing season
> is far away, so naturally, sailing is foremost in my dreams.
> Specifically, a new cruising spinnaker. I have a CDI roller furler,
> with a 150 genoa, which is a little too heavy for a lot of the light
> air sailing we get around here. I've heard of a drifter/cruising
> spinnaker design built to work over a furled sail with a bead-loop
> system of raising and lowering. Has anyone out there had any
> experience with this, or care to comment on the merits, or "de-merits"
> thereof?Thanks,Larry YakeM17 #200Tullamore
--------------DC563219FE53D2B1887E00A9



Hi Larry;

I have a CDI furler on my M-15 and instead on going the beaded loop
route, I hoist the drifter on the original jib halyard.  That arrangement
works ok on the fractional rigged M-15.  I'm not sure how it would
work on your M-17.

Don Haas

M15 #248

Dream Catcher

Larry Yake wrote:

 Hello fellow sailors,  We are totally
snowbound up here in the Inland Northwest (40 inches of snow in 3 days
last week) and sailing season is far away, so naturally, sailing is foremost
in my dreams.  Specifically, a new cruising spinnaker.  I have
a CDI roller furler, with a 150 genoa, which is a little too heavy for
a lot of the light air sailing we get around here. I've heard of a drifter/cruising
spinnaker design built to work over a furled sail with a bead-loop system
of raising and lowering. Has anyone out there had any experience with this,
or care to comment on the merits, or "de-merits" thereof?Thanks,Larry YakeM17
#200Tullamore



--------------DC563219FE53D2B1887E00A9--

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Message 37 of 52

From: (montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com)
Subject: M_Boats: Twin Forestays
Date: Thu Jan 17 23:24:16 2002
-----------------------------------

Steve,
I put some miles on a 24k displacement cutter with twin roller furling
headsails. Nothing is better for long downwind runs in big seas. To be
effective, the sails need to be large (genny size). You lose the hassle of a
main boom banging around and a mainsail blanketing the jib...a problem with
big following seas. There normally wasn't a downside to this setup except
for the sails banging together when furled. All I did to start upwind work
was to furl in one sail and close haul the other. You did have to be
carefull when furling up so they didn't get double wrapped (that happend ONCE
and it was a major pain to get them undone)...sorta like getting a spinnaker
wrapped on the forstay...been there too and it got wrapped so tight I had to
cut it off.
For non roller furling it would be twin forstays with a sail hanked on
each...each sail with it's own halliard, sheets and pole. Twin forstays need
to be far enough apart (fore and aft) to keep from banging together and snaps
from hitting each other...I really don't think this is something you would do
on a 15-17 Montgomery though. In my humble opinion a big genny poled out is
the answer to this size boat. Then make sure you have a vang and preventer
for the main boom. Storage can be a problem with specialty sails and the
genny will do both up and downwind without hanking on other sails. By all
means go for a roller furler anyway.
Bill P.

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Message 38 of 52

From: M_Boats (Michael & Lizabeth Towers)
Subject: M_Boats: M17 for sale in Minnesota
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:33:43 -0500
-----------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <20020729233703.5532.32840.Mailman@mailman.xmission.com>
Message-ID:
I'm moving and my M17 is for sale in Alexandria, Minnesota:
1976 Montgomery 17 #MMP172261276
1976 Trail-Rite trailer with tongue extension
1995 6hp Johnson Sailmaster longshaft outboard
New factory mast in 2000
New Sobstad cruising main in 2001
Bowers genoa on CDI furler
Working jib
Anchor and rode
This boat has a tangerine (red) hull, adjustable motor mount, swim ladder,
plexiglass hatchboards, and is set up for singlehanding with a
rollerfurling jib, the main halyard led to the cockpit, and lazy jacks to
keep the main under control going up and coming down. This is the galley
model, with a sink and water tank, a v-berth, and a single berth to
starboard. And, considering all the discussion on the list about stuck
centerboards, I'll point out that the centerboard on this boat works
perfectly.
I'm asking $4,995.
Michael Towers
Alexandria, Minnesota
towers@rea-alp.com
320-846-2345
From montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Wed Jul 31 15:19:49 2002

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Message 39 of 52

From: jim kimmet <76760.1744@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Upgrading my M17
Date: 30 Nov 1996 14:08:52 EST
-----------------------------------

It's winter here in Minnesota and it's time to start preparing for next summer.
I am planning some upgrades to my M17 that I'm sure other people have done and
could advise me on so I don't waste time reinventing the jib. Since this is my
first contribution to this discussion group let me introduce myself. My name is
Jim Kimmet and I bought Blue Skies, a 1976 model, from Ian Ellis here in
Minnesota this past spring. I trailer the boat and sail on lakes here in
Minnesota, particularly Lake Pepin and the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior. I
plan to sail other areas of Lake Superior, North channel of Lake Huron, and
eventually areas such as the Bahamas. Ian did some nice improvements on this
boat and I want to continue the tradition. My highest priority upgrades are::
Install a masthead VHF antenna. A Shakespeare squatty body seems to be the most
suitable. I will need to find a good convenient quick disconnect thru deck
fitting.
This boat is now equipped with a CDI roller-furler with working jib, and a 160%
hank on genoa. The roller furler is very convenient but I can't properly use the
genoa because of the roller furler and the working jib is too small most days
around here. I also will want a storm jib at some point. To provide the
flexibility that I am looking for I am considering selling the roller furler and
going to hank on sails. I spoke to a local sailmaker and he suggested using
metal triangular fittings at the bow and mast to attach both the roller furler
and a forestay side by side and use both. I had thought of trying something
like that but I have never seen this done and I thought that it might twist the
mast slightly. Has anyone done this or seen it done?
Sail slides on the mainsail.
Does anyone use the original head supplied on the Montgomery? Have you solved
the head smell problem? I read a thread on the Compuserv Sailing forum about
using Peal Products KO , which is an aerobic bacteria product, combined with two
horizontal vent lines from the holding tank to the toe rail area to keep the
tank aerobic. This doesn't seem feasible on the Montgomery, unless I mount the
holding tank on the deck. Perhaps it could be disguised as a planter!!
How about the Speedtech knotmeter? And I just saw an ad for a Speedtech
handheld depth sounder. Has anybody used these?
I have other changes in mind, but I only have 5 months to complete these before
the ice goes out, so I will hold them for later. Any suggestions will be
appreciated, especially if you have an empty M17 sized heated garage here in
Minneapolis. See you on the water...
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Message 40 of 52

From: Randolph I Palmer
Subject: M_Boats: bowers sails
Date: Jan 28, 1997 6:32 PM Messa
-----------------------------------

Hi Seth,
How's winter going. I posted my response to our M_Boat list as others might
want to join in. Hope you don't mind.
My storm jib is probably not a "true storm jib" as you mentioned but it is
pretty darn small. Talking with a couple of sailmakers they said if I went
with a 'true storm jib' I wouldn't have any pointing ability. Bowers made it
out of heavy material and the clew is set high. I can't recall how many
square feet it is (and don't have my notes at work, apparently) - maybe 20
sf.? I can look it up for you. I have been pleased with Bowers but
apparently Gordy Bowers isn't as he left the company recently to go to Inland
Sails. I talked to Hoopers Yachts about it and they said there shouldn't be
much difference as they have all the computer design and cutting technology
well worked out. I'm likely to keep sending them my business.
My working jib came with a reef point and a downhaul for reefing it from the
cockpit. I've used it and it works quite well - just loosen the halyard with
your right hand and pull the reef in with your left hand - then haul back on
the halyard - that quick (faster than a roller furler). You do have to raise
the sheets to the higher clew but you can do one side at a time on different
tacks while standing in the companionway. You could do one side before
reefing (ie: raise the starboard sheet on a port tack) if you have time, then
tack, reef and raise the other sheet, then tack back if you like. I added a
small line to the reefing clew (usually hangs in a loop) so I can roll the
loose foot of the sail up and tie it to the reef clew. It ain't real perty
but it works.
I'm sure sailing among the mountains along the AK coast you can hit some fast
changing conditions. When we launched "Oui-1" on Jackson Lake in Wyoming,
the gusts coming off the Teton Range were incredible - 45 degree wind changes
in a second or two. But we survived to tell about it and really learned to
trust the M15 very quickly - what a boat. (We like her so much she got a
brand new garage this winter to sleep in). It's starting to be snowshoe
weather here - and it keeps on coming ********************************
Randy P.
****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ******

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Message 41 of 52

From: Fritz Stuneck
Subject: M_Boats: M-23's for sale
Date: 25 Aug 1997 20:52:00 -0600
-----------------------------------

Found these two M-23's in the August 97 issue of Northern Breezes:
23' Montgomery, 1980
VHF, Depth, Roller Furling, Trlr, OB, Dinghy, One Owner, Superbly
maintained, many extras.
Call for complete specs. $17,000 608-787-5810
12' Montgomery, 1982/85
Hess-designed, Lapstrake sloop, mahogany interior, furler, VHF, depth, EZ
loader trlr, many extras. Nice! $14,000 715-836-9077
Reply to: fritzs@minn.net Member Minn.Gen. Society. Researching
Stuneck, Zdunek,Carlsen, Danner, Minnich, Ludwig, Beyer, Hoffman;
M-17 #174/White Bear Lake, MN.
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Message 42 of 52

From: Fritz Stuneck
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23's for sale?
Date: 29 Sep 1997 16:33:44 -0600
-----------------------------------

These are the 23's that were in Northern Breezes awhile ago:
Sent: 8/25/97 8:48 PM
Found these two M-23's in the August 97 issue of Northern Breezes:
Wisconsin Area.
23' Montgomery, 1980
VHF, Depth, Roller Furling, Trlr, OB, Dinghy, One Owner, Superbly
maintained, many extras.
Call for complete specs. $17,000 608-787-5810
12' Montgomery, 1982/85
Hess-designed, Lapstrake sloop, mahogany interior, furler, VHF, depth, EZ
loader trlr, many extras. Nice! $14,000 715-836-9077
xxxxxxxxxx
Also, this one:
Sent: 6/16/97 9:48 PM
Received: 6/17/97 4:33 AM
Reply-To: Montgomery boats, montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com
Hi yawl in M_World,
The Northern Breezes mag. has two M_Boats for sale in it this month a M_15
1985 with a few x-tras for $4900 @612-433-5007 and a M_23 1982
(commisioned 1985) for $14,500 obo @715-826-9077 (OK it's my boat - what
can I say?). There is a 20' Balboa for $3200 @612-424-7471 and a couple
of Nor'Sea 27's at Sailboats, Inc. @800-826-7010. All but one Nor'Sea are
fresh water boats as far as I know. I don't make any claims to know
anything about the boats (M23 excepted) but will accept large finders fees
from anyone who buys one.
Randy P.
Reply to: fritzs@minn.net Member Minn.Gen. Society. Researching
Stuneck, Zdunek,Carlsen, Danner, Minnich, Ludwig, Beyer, Hoffman;
M-17 #174/White Bear Lake, MN.
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Message 43 of 52

From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
Subject: Two Questions . . .
Date: Thu Apr 17 23:18:17 2003
-----------------------------------

Thank you, Bob: Both answers are VERY valuable to me. I'm adding a roller-furling and replacing my winches
so it's important to know, a. where to run my furling line and b. that I don't have to replace the cabin-top
winch ($$$ savings!). Fair winds! --Craig
p.s. Are you moving to a Nor'Sea 27'?
----- Original Message -----
To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'"
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:10 AM
Oops, I missed question 1. The winch on the port side cabin top is for
tensioning your jib halyard. The main on the 17 doesn't need a winch;
just a little tension (depending on conditions) on the
downhaul/cunningham does the trick. When you switch to CDI furling, you
no longer need the winch for the jib.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Honshells
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 7:24 PM
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
1. Why the cabin-top winch on the M17 (port on mine, starboard on
others)? If it's meant for the main
halyard, I've never encountered the need. Or is it intended for a
mast-raising system?
2. Does it make a difference whether I lead my CDI-furler control line
port or starboard? If so, why?
Okay, maybe that comes out as more like 4 questions.
Thanks!!!

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Message 44 of 52

From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
Subject: Two Questions . . .
Date: Thu Apr 17 22:19:27 2003
-----------------------------------

You're welcome Craig. You will love the roller furling. Make's single
handing a breeze!
To answer your p.s. question; no, I'm not getting a Nor'Sea 27. My
heart says yes, but my admiral says no! Think more along the lines of
"26 miles across the sea..." ;) I know, it's kinda like dumping the
homecoming queen in favor of the smartest girl in Home Ec.
Fair Winds,
Bob Campbell
Montgomery 17 #615 "Alina"
Lodi, CA
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Honshells
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:18 PM
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
Thank you, Bob: Both answers are VERY valuable to me. I'm adding a
roller-furling and replacing my winches
so it's important to know, a. where to run my furling line and b. that I
don't have to replace the cabin-top
winch ($$$ savings!). Fair winds! --Craig
p.s. Are you moving to a Nor'Sea 27'?
----- Original Message -----
To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'"

Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:10 AM
Oops, I missed question 1. The winch on the port side cabin top is for
tensioning your jib halyard. The main on the 17 doesn't need a winch;
just a little tension (depending on conditions) on the
downhaul/cunningham does the trick. When you switch to CDI furling, you
no longer need the winch for the jib.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Honshells
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 7:24 PM
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
1. Why the cabin-top winch on the M17 (port on mine, starboard on
others)? If it's meant for the main
halyard, I've never encountered the need. Or is it intended for a
mast-raising system?
2. Does it make a difference whether I lead my CDI-furler control line
port or starboard? If so, why?
Okay, maybe that comes out as more like 4 questions.
Thanks!!!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Message 45 of 52

From: "Honshells"
Subject: M_Boats: Two Questions . . .
Date: Sun Apr 20 22:48:36 2003
-----------------------------------

The cabin top winch is for the main halyard, works good if you lead it to
the cockpit.
I prefer the roller furling led to the starbord (right hand side) of the
boat because I am right handed and it is a natural position to pull , if
you'r left handed you might prefer it on the port side. Don't know if it
matters otherwise,... I think you can have your roller furler roll either
way.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats"

Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:23 PM
>
> 1. Why the cabin-top winch on the M17 (port on mine, starboard on
others)? If it's meant for the main
> halyard, I've never encountered the need. Or is it intended for a
mast-raising system?
>
> 2. Does it make a difference whether I lead my CDI-furler control line
port or starboard? If so, why?
>
> Okay, maybe that comes out as more like 4 questions.
>
> Thanks!!!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
>

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Message 46 of 52

From: fml162 at aol.com (fml162@aol.com)
Subject: M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
Date: Thu Oct 30 18:47:28 2003
-----------------------------------

Good evening, All.
My wife, Karol, and I are going to California in December (if it is still
there) to visit with Bob E. about buying our second M17. The first was about
20 years ago when we were in our early forties and had good knees and backs.
The rule at that time was more sails and complicated rigging was more fun!
Go-fast stuff was hot. Now, however, age has taken its toll somewhat, and we
tend to equate fun with convenience and just spending time on the water
without hassel.
We are currently discussing sail inventory and whether to include a
roller furling rig on the new boat. The anticpated use for the first year will be
primarily as a day sailor off of a mooring in Southwest Harbor, Maine where the
average afternoon winds average about 12 kts.
I have had roller furlers on other larger boats, but would appreciate
your collective input on a smaller boat which is going to be taken on and off a
trailer several times a season. How about ideas on sail inventory and sizes of
headsails?
Cheers and thanks. Have a great day. Skip Langley, Rockport,
Texas/Southwest Harbor, Maine
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Message 47 of 52

From: Wilsometer at aol.com (Wilsometer@aol.com)
Subject: M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
Date: Sat Nov 8 22:34:57 2003
-----------------------------------

In a message dated 10/30/03 3:53:04 PM, fml162@aol.com writes:
>Good evening, All.
> My wife, Karol, and I are going to California in December (if it is
>still there) to visit with Bob E. about buying our second M17. The first was
>about 20 years ago when we were in our early forties and had good knees and
backs.
> The rule at that time was more sails and complicated rigging was more fun!
> Go-fast stuff was hot. Now, however, age has taken its toll somewhat,
>and we tend to equate fun with convenience and just spending time on the
water
>without hassel.
> We are currently discussing sail inventory and whether to include a
>roller furling rig on the new boat. The anticpated use for the first year
>will be primarily as a day sailor off of a mooring in Southwest Harbor,
Maine where
>the average afternoon winds average about 12 kts.
>I have had roller furlers on other larger boats, but would appreciate
>your collective input on a smaller boat which is going to be taken on and
>off a trailer several times a season. How about ideas on sail inventory and
>sizes of headsails?
> Cheers and thanks. Have a great day. Skip Langley, Rockport,
>Texas/Southwest Harbor, Maine
Hi Skip,
I have to confess that I have been considering a furler for 'bebe' (M15). In
my research, it seems that very few small boat furlers are actually capable
of roller *reefing*. This is not acceptable to me, as my primary motive is to
facilitate easier headsail change/reduction while short handed (and in extreme
conditions). The only one I found that is a true reefing/furling system is
arguably overkill for the M15, but I am considering it nonethelss. The
'SnapFurl Small Boat' (Schaefer #CF-500) actually has the foil section that allows
the sail to roll and keep shape.
I have talked to my sailmaker (Bob Hogin) about a tri-radial cut headsail
that will ostensibly keep decent shape when rolled to about 30-40%.
In any event, thought you might be interested in this furler. CDI might make
one as well, but I am not as impressed of what I have seen of their quality.
Scott, M15 #478

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Message 48 of 52

From:
Subject: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
Date: Sat Nov 8 22:41:48 2003
-----------------------------------

The CDI is roller reefing, and very well-made. It's extremely simple, so, nothing to go wrong. I installed a
well-used drum and foil (with my genoa adapted) that had been salvaged from a highway-wrecked Hunter. It has
worked beautiful and shows no sign of wear or failure. I'm under the impression that the CDI is a standby on
the M17 . . .
----- Original Message -----
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:34 PM
In a message dated 10/30/03 3:53:04 PM, fml162@aol.com writes:
Good evening, All.
My wife, Karol, and I are going to California in December (if it is
still there) to visit with Bob E. about buying our second M17. The first was
about 20 years ago when we were in our early forties and had good knees and
backs.
The rule at that time was more sails and complicated rigging was more fun!
Go-fast stuff was hot. Now, however, age has taken its toll somewhat,
and we tend to equate fun with convenience and just spending time on the
water
without hassel.
We are currently discussing sail inventory and whether to include a
roller furling rig on the new boat. The anticpated use for the first year
will be primarily as a day sailor off of a mooring in Southwest Harbor,
Maine where
the average afternoon winds average about 12 kts.
I have had roller furlers on other larger boats, but would appreciate
your collective input on a smaller boat which is going to be taken on and
off a trailer several times a season. How about ideas on sail inventory and
sizes of headsails?
Cheers and thanks. Have a great day. Skip Langley, Rockport,
Texas/Southwest Harbor, Maine
Hi Skip,
I have to confess that I have been considering a furler for 'bebe' (M15). In
my research, it seems that very few small boat furlers are actually capable
of roller *reefing*. This is not acceptable to me, as my primary motive is to
facilitate easier headsail change/reduction while short handed (and in extreme
conditions). The only one I found that is a true reefing/furling system is
arguably overkill for the M15, but I am considering it nonethelss. The
'SnapFurl Small Boat' (Schaefer #CF-500) actually has the foil section that allows
the sail to roll and keep shape.
I have talked to my sailmaker (Bob Hogin) about a tri-radial cut headsail
that will ostensibly keep decent shape when rolled to about 30-40%.
In any event, thought you might be interested in this furler. CDI might make
one as well, but I am not as impressed of what I have seen of their quality.
Scott, M15 #478

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Message 49 of 52

From: rc2222 at pacbell.net (Richard Cottrell)
Subject: M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
Date: Sun Nov 9 11:15:57 2003
-----------------------------------

Scott:

Do you have cost estimates from Bob Hogin and the Snap Furl System?


Rich Cottrell
Wilsometer@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 10/30/03 3:53:04 PM, fml162@aol.com writes:
>Good evening, All.
> My wife, Karol, and I are going to California in December (if it is
>still there) to visit with Bob E. about buying our second M17. The first was
>about 20 years ago when we were in our early forties and had good knees and
backs.
> The rule at that time was more sails and complicated rigging was more fun!
> Go-fast stuff was hot. Now, however, age has taken its toll somewhat,
>and we tend to equate fun with convenience and just spending time on the
water
>without hassel.
> We are currently discussing sail inventory and whether to include a
>roller furling rig on the new boat. The anticpated use for the first year
>will be primarily as a day sailor off of a mooring in Southwest Harbor,
Maine where
>the average afternoon winds average about 12 kts.
>I have had roller furlers on other larger boats, but would appreciate
>your collective input on a smaller boat which is going to be taken on and
>off a trailer several times a season. How about ideas on sail inventory and
>sizes of headsails?
> Cheers and thanks. Have a great day. Skip Langley, Rockport,
>Texas/Southwest Harbor, Maine
Hi Skip,
I have to confess that I have been considering a furler for 'bebe' (M15). In
my research, it seems that very few small boat furlers are actually capable
of roller *reefing*. This is not acceptable to me, as my primary motive is to
facilitate easier headsail change/reduction while short handed (and in extreme
conditions). The only one I found that is a true reefing/furling system is
arguably overkill for the M15, but I am considering it nonethelss. The
'SnapFurl Small Boat' (Schaefer #CF-500) actually has the foil section that allows
the sail to roll and keep shape.
I have talked to my sailmaker (Bob Hogin) about a tri-radial cut headsail
that will ostensibly keep decent shape when rolled to about 30-40%.
In any event, thought you might be interested in this furler. CDI might make
one as well, but I am not as impressed of what I have seen of their quality.
Scott, M15 #478
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Message 50 of 52

From: Wilsometer at aol.com (Wilsometer@aol.com)
Subject: M_Boats: Furling Headsails for M15 and M17
Date: Sat Nov 29 14:56:26 2003
-----------------------------------

Hi Group,
Several had asked me to post my findings regarding furling (and reefable)
headsails for the M15.
I met with my favorite local sailmaker, Bob Hogin of Hogin Sails in Alameda,
CA to discuss a one-size-fits-all solution for my M15. As mentioned
previously, Bob had told me of a tri-radial cut roller furling headsail that he had
built that kept good, flat shape when rolled to 30%-40%.
While not previously a fan of roller furling, I have considered the
possibility of installing one for more extended or rough water travels while single
handing. I have a great little storm jib (also made by Bob Hogin) that, when
coupled with a double-reefed main, performs beautifully in high wind scenarios.
Going forward on the M15 in these conditions is less than ideal when short
handed. Also, I have learned from sailing on other boats with furling that I am
actually more likely to sail than motor when it is a simple matter of
unrolling the jib (especially in the Pacific Northwest where winds are often
light-to-nonexistant).
To recap, many of the small boat furlers out there allow for furling, but not
roller reefing of the headsail. The small Schaeffer Snap-Furl, and perhaps
some models from CDI do have both capabilities.
Anyway, Bob gave me quotes for two possible variants on his design. Given
the diminutive size of both sails, he said that he could get nearly the
performance from a standard cut as a tri-radail design. The standard cut utilizes 6.5
ounce standard dacron, and the tri-radial cut uses a Bainbridge 5 ounce
laminated cloth. Bob also felt that this could be done with a sail larger than
135%, but my criteria was more weighted towards performance when reefed. I had
him give me prices for both the M15 and M17 as follows:
M15:
135% Custom with 6.5 ounce standard dacron cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$270.00
135% Custom Tri-Radial with 5.0 ounce Bainbridge cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$322.00
Options:
U.V. Cover (for UV protection when rolled): $129.00
tell tale window: $18.00
M17:
135% Custom with 6.5 ounce standard dacron cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$513.00
135% Custom Tri-Radial with 5.0 ounce Bainbridge cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$640.00
Options:
U.V. Cover (for UV protection when rolled): $191.00
tell tale window: $18.00
Bob will extend a discount for multiple orders, so if there are any
interested parties, it would be worth coordinating. I would encourage anyone
interested to speak with Bob directly (510.523.4388). You would need to discuss
measurements, sheeting angles, options, etc. I told Bob that I could take my M15 in
for measurements (schedule permitting), but individual boats vary and you
should confirm your own measurements. Also, there would likely be differences in
luff depending on type of furler. There is an M17 at Alameda Marina that
might be available for reference measurements.
I have several sails from Bob, and find him to be a delight to work with and
his work excellent. I think there are several on the list who have used him
as well. This is their slow time of year, so anyone looking for M-sails might
want to give him a call.
Scott, M15 #478 'bebe'

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Message 51 of 52

From:
Subject: Furling Headsails for M15 and M17
Date: Sat Nov 29 22:53:19 2003
-----------------------------------

The CDI is roller-reefing. To me, furlers that simply furl, and do not reef, don't seem to be worth the
expense: The advantage of having a furling headsail was, for me, the flexibility of sizing it from loin-cloth
to 100+ percent, from the safety of the cockpit . . .
----- Original Message -----
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 2:56 PM
Hi Group,
Several had asked me to post my findings regarding furling (and reefable)
headsails for the M15.
I met with my favorite local sailmaker, Bob Hogin of Hogin Sails in Alameda,
CA to discuss a one-size-fits-all solution for my M15. As mentioned
previously, Bob had told me of a tri-radial cut roller furling headsail that he had
built that kept good, flat shape when rolled to 30%-40%.
While not previously a fan of roller furling, I have considered the
possibility of installing one for more extended or rough water travels while single
handing. I have a great little storm jib (also made by Bob Hogin) that, when
coupled with a double-reefed main, performs beautifully in high wind scenarios.
Going forward on the M15 in these conditions is less than ideal when short
handed. Also, I have learned from sailing on other boats with furling that I am
actually more likely to sail than motor when it is a simple matter of
unrolling the jib (especially in the Pacific Northwest where winds are often
light-to-nonexistant).
To recap, many of the small boat furlers out there allow for furling, but not
roller reefing of the headsail. The small Schaeffer Snap-Furl, and perhaps
some models from CDI do have both capabilities.
Anyway, Bob gave me quotes for two possible variants on his design. Given
the diminutive size of both sails, he said that he could get nearly the
performance from a standard cut as a tri-radail design. The standard cut utilizes 6.5
ounce standard dacron, and the tri-radial cut uses a Bainbridge 5 ounce
laminated cloth. Bob also felt that this could be done with a sail larger than
135%, but my criteria was more weighted towards performance when reefed. I had
him give me prices for both the M15 and M17 as follows:
M15:
135% Custom with 6.5 ounce standard dacron cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$270.00
135% Custom Tri-Radial with 5.0 ounce Bainbridge cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$322.00
Options:
U.V. Cover (for UV protection when rolled): $129.00
tell tale window: $18.00
M17:
135% Custom with 6.5 ounce standard dacron cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$513.00
135% Custom Tri-Radial with 5.0 ounce Bainbridge cloth and luff Shape Tape:
$640.00
Options:
U.V. Cover (for UV protection when rolled): $191.00
tell tale window: $18.00
Bob will extend a discount for multiple orders, so if there are any
interested parties, it would be worth coordinating. I would encourage anyone
interested to speak with Bob directly (510.523.4388). You would need to discuss
measurements, sheeting angles, options, etc. I told Bob that I could take my M15 in
for measurements (schedule permitting), but individual boats vary and you
should confirm your own measurements. Also, there would likely be differences in
luff depending on type of furler. There is an M17 at Alameda Marina that
might be available for reference measurements.
I have several sails from Bob, and find him to be a delight to work with and
his work excellent. I think there are several on the list who have used him
as well. This is their slow time of year, so anyone looking for M-sails might
want to give him a call.
Scott, M15 #478 'bebe'

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Message 52 of 52

From: edarts93 at earthlink.net (Roberta Dvorscak)
Subject: M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
Date: Sat Nov 29 21:27:58 2003
-----------------------------------

To all who are considering a roller furler,
I added a CDI roller furler last year to my M17 and am quite
happy with it. The CDI design seems to be bullet-proof. I have had no
problems whatsoever. My wife loves that she no longer needs to go
forward to perform sail handling duties and I must admit that I too
enjoy the convenience as well as the safety of it. Mike Leonard wrote a
nice article detailing his selection and installation of a CDI furler
which is on the MSOG site (under How to and specs/Specifications,
weights and measures. I chose to go with a 135% Genoa in a heavier cloth
since I sail in winds over 20 knots fairly often and I didn't want to
stretch out a lighter sail that was rolled up to storm jib size. I was
planning to purchase a lighter 150% genoa later and choose my sail for
the day at the dock. It's very easy to change sails on the CDI furler.
We like it and that's my 2 cents worth on the subject.
Mark and Roberta Dvorscak
M17 #400 Grace

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M_Boats: Roller furling
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M_Boats: First Sail, and etc.
M_Boats: Sails
Re: M_Boats: Sails
Re: M_Boats: Sails
RE: M_Boats: Sails
M_Boats: cdi roller furler
RE: M_Boats: cdi roller furler
M_Boats: Inner stay on an M17
M_Boats: I finally got an M!

M_Boats: 4 stroke motor opinions
Re: M_Boats: Drifter/Reacher
M_Boats: Your opinion is requested

M_Boats: Some more stuff on MSOG web site
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Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
RE: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
Re: M_Boats: Roller furling and Genoa
M_Boats: RE: Asymmetrical spinnaker
M_Boats: New MSOG Database Needs You
(Continued next column)		 RE: M_Boats: New MSOG Database Needs You
Re: M_Boats: The List
M_Boats: M-17 Roller Furling Jib/Forestay
Re: M_Boats: M-17 Roller Furling Jib/Forestay
M_Boats: Mast rake and racing ratings
Re: M_Boats: M-15 sold
M_Boats: Will compile.
Re: M_Boats: Will compile.
M_Boats: Cruising spinnaker
M_Boats: Cruising spinnaker
M_Boats: Twin Forestays
M_Boats: M17 for sale in Minnesota
M_Boats: Upgrading my M17
M_Boats: bowers sails
M_Boats: M-23's for sale
Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23's for sale?
Two Questions . . .
Two Questions . . .
M_Boats: Two Questions . . .
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling
M_Boats: Furling Headsails for M15 and M17
Furling Headsails for M15 and M17
M_Boats: M 17 Sail Inventory, Roller Furling