Message 1 of 21

Message 2 of 21

Message 3 of 21

Message 4 of 21

Months ago I sent an e-mail reguesting opinions regarding the best way to
replace the hook on the upper trailing edge of my cast iron centerboard.
(When the board is lowered the weight of the board eventually is supported at
the aft end by the pin running through the aft end of the centerboard trunk.)
Jerry was good enough to suggest that I have a welder build up a new hook
with nickel alloy welding rods. This is probably a great idea, but my gut
tells me it would be a fairly fragile repair. (Our guts must be heeded
regardless of how crazy they may be.) A friend suggested drilling a hole in
the aft end of the board where the hook was, tap threads into it, and thread
a 3/8 stainless or bronze bolt into it. The protruding bolt would replace
the cast hook. My gut likes this better.
Anybody tried this latter method? Opinions?
Dick M17 253
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 5 of 21

Message 6 of 21

Message 7 of 21

In a message dated 5/17/99 4:40:36 AM, you wrote:
<e=20
trailer) I noticed there is a gap between the centerboard trunk liner and th=
e=20
outer shell of the fixed part of the keel. Some sections around this=20
perimeter appear to have a filler sealing the joint. I assume the joint=20
should be completely filled in. Has anyone else noticed this condition on=20
thier boat? Is resealing with epoxy a dirveway type of repair or a "haul=20
out'? It looks like I could get to most of it with a putty knife, but wonde=
r=20
how long it would last without being properly prepared. Is this serious=20
problem and should I repair it before Dream Catcher goes in the water this=20
year?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Don Haas, M15-248>>
Don,
Virtually all M15's I looked at had this condition to some degree--some a lo=
t=20
worse than others. One M15 I looked at had started to delaminate at the hul=
l=20
opening. In addition to delamination, This same boat also had so many bottom=20
blisters as to make me wonder whether the boat was salvageable.
My boat, on the other hand, was essentially brand new (in the water maybe on=
e=20
or two times for demo sails before being shrink-wrapped for storage). In=20
spite of this, the centerboard opening was irregular in shape and had=20
fiberglass "hairs" extending from the rough exposed laminate. The boat did=20
not leak, so I guess it had filler where needed, but I was uneasy about the=20
whole situation.
=20
I decided to get a second opinion from a friend who is a marine surveyor. H=
e=20
was not comfortable with the exposed fiberglass laminate, and was especially=20
disturbed by the exposed fiberglass "hairs", which, he suggested, would have=20
the effect of wicking water into the laminate. He suggested that If I merel=
y=20
daysailed the boat occasionally, and trailered it some distance so that the=20
laminate might dry, that I might not have any problem. When I told him of=20
my plans to leave the boat in the water for three or so weeks at a time whil=
e=20
cruising, he said I had little choice but to repair the joint and close the=20
bare laminate.
I decided to undertake the work myself. I asked the surveyor for his=20
recommendation, and then got specific product information from Interlux=20
before proceeding. What sounded like a simple process ended up being a mess=
y=20
and time consuming affair. Still, I am glad I did it myself. I suspect tha=
t=20
no yard would have taken the same care, or if they did, it would have cost a=20
fortune. I decided to go ahead and do a full barrier coat on the keel while=20
I was at it. It was my original intention to do a full barrier coat on the=20
entire bottom (to the waterline), but I decided to see how the keel came out=20
first. In retrospect, I would have liked to have pulled and barrier coated=20
the centerboard as well as the entire inside of the trunk. As it was,=20
however, it took nearly a week to sand, fill, fair, and get seven barrier=20
coats on the keel and opening. The finished product was worth the work. Th=
e=20
opening in the hull is now perfectly shaped and flush to that of the=20
centerboard liner, and I have no concern that the hull will ever delaminate=20
at this junction.
While not exhaustive, I will outline the general steps taken below:
1) I jacked up the boat while still on the trailer by placing a floor jack=20
under the ballasted section of the keel. By alternating fore and aft, I was=20
able to slip the old bias-ply trailer tires (the only good use for them in m=
y=20
opinion--I switched to radials) between the hull and trailer bunk boards=20
until the boat was fully supported some 6" higher than the normal trailering=20
height.
2) I masked the hull leaving the keel exposed (Use 3m blue "long mask").
3) I solvent washed (Interlux #202 Fiberglass Solvent Wash) the entire keel=20
surface, the hull/trunk joint, and as far up the centerboard trunk as I coul=
d=20
reach. I used a brush to get the solvent into the crack between hull and=20
trunk.
4) I sanded all areas with 80 grit, and where necessary, ground down the=20
opening in hull to better correspond with the more uniform trunk liner. I=20
also was careful to cut all exposed fiberglass hairs.
5) Vacuumed all fiberglass dust from joint, and repeated solvent wash as in=20
#3 above.
6) Applied Interlux 1000/1001 to all exposed laminate at hull opening and=20
bottom of centerboard trunk liner.
7) Filled void between trunk liner and hull opening with Interlux/VC=20
'Watertite'--a two-part epoxy filler designed for blister and osmosis repair=
.
8) After Watertite cured, sanded opening smooth and fair so that hull and=20
trunk appear to be continuous.
9) Repeated solvent wash of all sanded/filled areas.
10) Applied seven coats Interlux 2000/2001 Barrier Coat System making sure t=
o=20
apply each coat within the previous coat's open time (limited time window=20
between coats without having to sand).
11) Spent hours cutting four days worth of epoxy drips out of my hair (and I=20
had even worn a hat!)
My intent was to wet sand the last 2000/2001 coat and finish with two coats=20
Interlux/VC 'Underwater Epoxy' (a hard, super slick white finish with teflon=20
that is easy to wet sand or burnish smooth). It got down to the wire, and I=20
had to choose between having a race smooth bottom or cruising in BC. The=20
latter won out. I called Interlux, and they indicated that there was no=20
penalty in waiting to apply the Underwater Epoxy at a later date. They did=20
say, however, that I would have to resand the 2000/2001 surface to get a goo=
d=20
mechanical bond, and that I might want to add a couple of coats prior to a=20
final wet sanding and application the Underwater Epoxy.
I know this sounds like a lot of work, but if you had seen the same blistere=
d=20
and delaminating M15 that I did, you might choose the same course of action. =20
By the way, it is extremely important that the boat be thoroughly dried out=20
before undertaking any of the above work. The last thing you want to do is=20
seal in any moisture that has not been able to work its way out of the=20
laminate. My boat sat indoors in a heated garage for almost a year prior to=20
my starting this process. This was probably a bit longer than necessary, bu=
t=20
I was too busy to take it out anyway.
Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9"
6)=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 8 of 21

Scott, Don:
Thanks for the heads up. It sounds like you did a very thorough job. I
wonder how many of us are going to be under our boats tomorrow... =20
Jerry, Bob:
Any words of wisdom on this? I don't recall hearing of Montgomery's with a
severe blistering problem, what are you aware of? I have noticed that my CB
tends to stick a bit after being in the water for several days. Is this a
symptom of what Scott and Don have discovered?
Regards,
Steve
>
>In a message dated 5/17/99 4:40:36 AM, you wrote:
>
>< the=20
>trailer) I noticed there is a gap between the centerboard trunk liner and=
the=20
>outer shell of the fixed part of the keel. Some sections around this=20
>perimeter appear to have a filler sealing the joint. I assume the joint=
=20
>should be completely filled in. Has anyone else noticed this condition on=
=20
>thier boat? Is resealing with epoxy a dirveway type of repair or a "haul=
=20
>out'? It looks like I could get to most of it with a putty knife, but=
wonder=20
>how long it would last without being properly prepared. Is this serious=20
>problem and should I repair it before Dream Catcher goes in the water this=
=20
>year?
>
>Any help will be much appreciated.
>
>Don Haas, M15-248>>
>
>Don,
>Virtually all M15's I looked at had this condition to some degree--some a=
lot=20
>worse than others. One M15 I looked at had started to delaminate at the=
hull=20
>opening. In addition to delamination, This same boat also had so many=
bottom=20
>blisters as to make me wonder whether the boat was salvageable.
>
>My boat, on the other hand, was essentially brand new (in the water maybe=
one=20
>or two times for demo sails before being shrink-wrapped for storage). In=
=20
>spite of this, the centerboard opening was irregular in shape and had=20
>fiberglass "hairs" extending from the rough exposed laminate. The boat did=
=20
>not leak, so I guess it had filler where needed, but I was uneasy about the=
=20
>whole situation.
>=20
>I decided to get a second opinion from a friend who is a marine surveyor. =
He=20
>was not comfortable with the exposed fiberglass laminate, and was=
especially=20
>disturbed by the exposed fiberglass "hairs", which, he suggested, would=
have=20
>the effect of wicking water into the laminate. He suggested that If I=
merely=20
>daysailed the boat occasionally, and trailered it some distance so that the=
=20
>laminate might dry, that I might not have any problem. When I told him of=
=20
>my plans to leave the boat in the water for three or so weeks at a time=
while=20
>cruising, he said I had little choice but to repair the joint and close the=
=20
>bare laminate.
>
>I decided to undertake the work myself. I asked the surveyor for his=20
>recommendation, and then got specific product information from Interlux=20
>before proceeding. What sounded like a simple process ended up being a=
messy=20
>and time consuming affair. Still, I am glad I did it myself. I suspect=
that=20
>no yard would have taken the same care, or if they did, it would have cost=
a=20
>fortune. I decided to go ahead and do a full barrier coat on the keel=
while=20
>I was at it. It was my original intention to do a full barrier coat on the=
=20
>entire bottom (to the waterline), but I decided to see how the keel came=
out=20
>first. In retrospect, I would have liked to have pulled and barrier coated=
=20
>the centerboard as well as the entire inside of the trunk. As it was,=20
>however, it took nearly a week to sand, fill, fair, and get seven barrier=
=20
>coats on the keel and opening. The finished product was worth the work. =
The=20
>opening in the hull is now perfectly shaped and flush to that of the=20
>centerboard liner, and I have no concern that the hull will ever delaminate=
=20
>at this junction.
>
>While not exhaustive, I will outline the general steps taken below:
>
>1) I jacked up the boat while still on the trailer by placing a floor jack=
=20
>under the ballasted section of the keel. By alternating fore and aft, I=
was=20
>able to slip the old bias-ply trailer tires (the only good use for them in=
my=20
>opinion--I switched to radials) between the hull and trailer bunk boards=20
>until the boat was fully supported some 6" higher than the normal=
trailering=20
>height.
>
>2) I masked the hull leaving the keel exposed (Use 3m blue "long mask").
>
>3) I solvent washed (Interlux #202 Fiberglass Solvent Wash) the entire keel=
=20
>surface, the hull/trunk joint, and as far up the centerboard trunk as I=
could=20
>reach. I used a brush to get the solvent into the crack between hull and=
=20
>trunk.
>
>4) I sanded all areas with 80 grit, and where necessary, ground down the=20
>opening in hull to better correspond with the more uniform trunk liner. I=
=20
>also was careful to cut all exposed fiberglass hairs.
>
>5) Vacuumed all fiberglass dust from joint, and repeated solvent wash as in=
=20
>#3 above.
>
>6) Applied Interlux 1000/1001 to all exposed laminate at hull opening and=
=20
>bottom of centerboard trunk liner.
>
>7) Filled void between trunk liner and hull opening with Interlux/VC=20
>'Watertite'--a two-part epoxy filler designed for blister and osmosis=
repair.
>
>8) After Watertite cured, sanded opening smooth and fair so that hull and=
=20
>trunk appear to be continuous.
>
>9) Repeated solvent wash of all sanded/filled areas.
>
>10) Applied seven coats Interlux 2000/2001 Barrier Coat System making sure=
to=20
>apply each coat within the previous coat's open time (limited time window=
=20
>between coats without having to sand).
>
>11) Spent hours cutting four days worth of epoxy drips out of my hair (and=
I=20
>had even worn a hat!)
>
>My intent was to wet sand the last 2000/2001 coat and finish with two coats=
=20
>Interlux/VC 'Underwater Epoxy' (a hard, super slick white finish with=
teflon=20
>that is easy to wet sand or burnish smooth). It got down to the wire, and=
I=20
>had to choose between having a race smooth bottom or cruising in BC. The=
=20
>latter won out. I called Interlux, and they indicated that there was no=20
>penalty in waiting to apply the Underwater Epoxy at a later date. They did=
=20
>say, however, that I would have to resand the 2000/2001 surface to get a=
good=20
>mechanical bond, and that I might want to add a couple of coats prior to a=
=20
>final wet sanding and application the Underwater Epoxy.
>
>I know this sounds like a lot of work, but if you had seen the same=
blistered=20
>and delaminating M15 that I did, you might choose the same course of=
action. =20
>By the way, it is extremely important that the boat be thoroughly dried out=
=20
>before undertaking any of the above work. The last thing you want to do is=
=20
>seal in any moisture that has not been able to work its way out of the=20
>laminate. My boat sat indoors in a heated garage for almost a year prior=
to=20
>my starting this process. This was probably a bit longer than necessary,=
but=20
>I was too busy to take it out anyway.
>
>Let me know if you have any additional questions.
>
>Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9"
>
>
>
>6)=20
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 9 of 21

Message 10 of 21

Message 11 of 21

Connie,
Thanks again for the old sage advice...... I'll need it.
The boat has arrived.... got here this evening.
Structurally is looks aok, but the lines and some hardware are going bye bye.
The centerboard "slot" needs work and there are some semi rough
patches/repairs to cockpit surface.
I think the boat is headed for a complete overhaul. (anticipated that).
I guess the next question/solicitation is to all readers is advice on
rope/sails/hardware/glass repair/hull paint/etc etc etc. I will go back
through the posts, but I think any and all advice about overhauls would be
appreciated.
Kris
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 12 of 21

Message 13 of 21

Message 14 of 21

Looks like my M17 centerboard is stuck in the trunk. Mine is the production
model with a keel trunk and steel centerboard lowered by a line (not the
screw model). Looking through the archieves I see that this problem is not
uncommon. As near as I can see it looks like the problem is the keel trunk
not the centerboard. Does anyone know what the cross section of the keel
trunk is? Is it fiberglass filled with lead (or steel) or is the trunk all
steel. Mine is perforated along the bottom of the opening and I am not sure
how to repair it. Also, has anyone successfully stopped rust on the
centerboard? I appreciate any help.
Ken Wheeler
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 15 of 21

Message 16 of 21

Message 17 of 21

Message 18 of 21

Eric,
It doesn't sound bad at all. I would also check any of the through
deck/cabin top hardware to ensure that it was bedded properly, and that no
rot has started in the balsa core. Other than that, I think it's a keeper.
Steve
>Looked at a used Mont 15 (1988, #15412?) this evening. The boat seemed
>sound overall. No loose fittings. No huge defects. Didn't see any cracked
>gel coat around stress points. Some wear and tear such as a few chips on
>the edge of the deck. The rudder assembly looks good. The bottom of the
>hull is painted black. Is this normal? I rubbed my finger across it and it
>came up black. I did not lower and raise the centerboard, however. Didn't
>think of this until I was on my way home. Can this be a problem? What is
>the centerboard made of? What would be involved in repairing the chips
>around the deck edge? Would it be worth repainting the bottom of the hull
>(how much?)?
>
>I guess I'm inclined to think it's a fair deal even though it wasn't in as
>good of condition as I had hoped.
>
>Anything I could be missing?
>
>Thanks to everyone for your comments on the Montgomery 15 in response to my
>ealier post.
>
>Regards,
>Eric
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 19 of 21

Mike,
Thanks for your restoration post. Now I do remember you telling about
buying your boat. Mine's in similar condition except that it was Texas
sun oxidizing it, not California.
Mine's sitting at a shop awaiting attention - it looks as though
someone threw the centerboard down instead of lowering it. The piece of
keel fiberglass just below the stopper bolt had broken out, so someone
bolted a metal strap on that went under the keel and up the sides to
hold the bolt in. Yuk! They also screwed a square metal plate over
both sides of the pivot pin to keep it from coming out. Guess some
people haven't heard about epoxy yet :-)
I decided that between that repair and needing to get the centerboard
out I'd take it someplace (and they'd have it done by the middle of
June...har,har). I couldn't quite bring myself to jack the boat up high
enough to get the centerboard out.
I did rub out a small section of hull before bringing the boat over to
said shop. Like yours, it came back to a beautiful gloss - and guess
what? It's cream colored, not white. The teak on mine had been left to
weather un-varnished, so it's got some pretty deep grooves in it. I
sanded out a small bit of toe-rail, and by the time I got the grooves
sanded out it was looking more like a toe-toothpick. I'm planning to
replace much of the teak with new pieces from Nor'Sea. That's actually
a bonus I hadn't considered when I first started looking at M-boats
because at that time, they were out of production. It sure is nice to
have Bob making them (and their parts) again!
I read with interest the description of your trip to the wet-locker
exit hoses. I'm glad you weighed in with your opinion. Most of my
midnight fears had to do with one of the hoses failing some night at the
marina and me going down for a sail to find just a mast sticking up...
Like you, I figure I could probably get to one of the holes underway by
slinking back along the berth although I'm not sure how fast it would be
- I can imagine having a lot of gear piled there. Right now, I'm at the
gathering information stage.
Anyway, thanks for your re-post of the restoration. Now I'll remember
who you are. We really should have a world-wide M-boat gathering so
that we can all meet in person :-) --- Rachel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message 20 of 21

Message 21 of 21

In a message dated 5/17/99 4:40:36 AM, you wrote:
<trailer) I noticed there is a gap between the centerboard trunk liner and the
outer shell of the fixed part of the keel. Some sections around this
perimeter appear to have a filler sealing the joint. I assume the joint
should be completely filled in. Has anyone else noticed this condition on
thier boat? Is resealing with epoxy a dirveway type of repair or a ^haul
out'? It looks like I could get to most of it with a putty knife, but wonder
how long it would last without being properly prepared. Is this serious
problem and should I repair it before Dream Catcher goes in the water this
year?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Don Haas, M15-248>>
Don,
Virtually all M15's I looked at had this condition to some degree--some a lot
worse than others. One M15 I looked at had started to delaminate at the hull
opening. In addition to delamination, This same boat also had so many bottom
blisters as to make me wonder whether the boat was salvageable.
My boat, on the other hand, was essentially brand new (in the water maybe one
or two times for demo sails before being shrink-wrapped for storage). In
spite of this, the centerboard opening was irregular in shape and had
fiberglass ^hairs^ extending from the rough exposed laminate. The boat did
not leak, so I guess it had filler where needed, but I was uneasy about the
whole situation.
I decided to get a second opinion from a friend who is a marine surveyor. He
was not comfortable with the exposed fiberglass laminate, and was especially
disturbed by the exposed fiberglass ^hairs^, which, he suggested, would have
the effect of wicking water into the laminate. He suggested that If I merely
daysailed the boat occasionally, and trailered it some distance so that the
laminate might dry, that I might not have any problem. When I told him of
my plans to leave the boat in the water for three or so weeks at a time while
cruising, he said I had little choice but to repair the joint and close the
bare laminate.
I decided to undertake the work myself. I asked the surveyor for his
recommendation, and then got specific product information from Interlux
before proceeding. What sounded like a simple process ended up being a messy
and time consuming affair. Still, I am glad I did it myself. I suspect that
no yard would have taken the same care, or if they did, it would have cost a
fortune. I decided to go ahead and do a full barrier coat on the keel while
I was at it. It was my original intention to do a full barrier coat on the
entire bottom (to the waterline), but I decided to see how the keel came out
first. In retrospect, I would have liked to have pulled and barrier coated
the centerboard as well as the entire inside of the trunk. As it was,
however, it took nearly a week to sand, fill, fair, and get seven barrier
coats on the keel and opening. The finished product was worth the work. The
opening in the hull is now perfectly shaped and flush to that of the
centerboard liner, and I have no concern that the hull will ever delaminate
at this junction.
While not exhaustive, I will outline the general steps taken below:
1) I jacked up the boat while still on the trailer by placing a floor jack
under the ballasted section of the keel. By alternating fore and aft, I was
able to slip the old bias-ply trailer tires (the only good use for them in my
opinion--I switched to radials) between the hull and trailer bunk boards
until the boat was fully supported some 6^ higher than the normal trailering
height.
2) I masked the hull leaving the keel exposed (Use 3m blue ^long mask^).
3) I solvent washed (Interlux #202 Fiberglass Solvent Wash) the entire keel
surface, the hull/trunk joint, and as far up the centerboard trunk as I could
reach. I used a brush to get the solvent into the crack between hull and
trunk.
4) I sanded all areas with 80 grit, and where necessary, ground down the
opening in hull to better correspond with the more uniform trunk liner. I
also was careful to cut all exposed fiberglass hairs.
5) Vacuumed all fiberglass dust from joint, and repeated solvent wash as in
#3 above.
6) Applied Interlux 1000/1001 to all exposed laminate at hull opening and
bottom of centerboard trunk liner.
7) Filled void between trunk liner and hull opening with Interlux/VC
'Watertite'--a two-part epoxy filler designed for blister and osmosis repair.
8) After Watertite cured, sanded opening smooth and fair so that hull and
trunk appear to be continuous.
9) Repeated solvent wash of all sanded/filled areas.
10) Applied seven coats Interlux 2000/2001 Barrier Coat System making sure to
apply each coat within the previous coat's open time (limited time window
between coats without having to sand).
11) Spent hours cutting four days worth of epoxy drips out of my hair (and I
had even worn a hat!)
My intent was to wet sand the last 2000/2001 coat and finish with two coats
Interlux/VC 'Underwater Epoxy' (a hard, super slick white finish with teflon
that is easy to wet sand or burnish smooth). It got down to the wire, and I
had to choose between having a race smooth bottom or cruising in BC. The
latter won out. I called Interlux, and they indicated that there was no
penalty in waiting to apply the Underwater Epoxy at a later date. They did
say, however, that I would have to resand the 2000/2001 surface to get a good
mechanical bond, and that I might want to add a couple of coats prior to a
final wet sanding and application the Underwater Epoxy.
I know this sounds like a lot of work, but if you had seen the same blistered
and delaminating M15 that I did, you might choose the same course of action.
By the way, it is extremely important that the boat be thoroughly dried out
before undertaking any of the above work. The last thing you want to do is
seal in any moisture that has not been able to work its way out of the
laminate. My boat sat indoors in a heated garage for almost a year prior to
my starting this process. This was probably a bit longer than necessary, but
I was too busy to take it out anyway.
Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Scott Grometer, M15 #478 ^bebe^
From montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Mon Apr 8 20:15:16 2002